Picasso 1.6hdi P0339 Error / car turns over fine but won't fire.

[C3CAR]

Diagbox is for post 2006 cars but also contains lexia for times it is connected to an older car.

So.you need diagbox and it will switch to lexia if necessary.

[brimclell]

Latest update is that I've changed the sensor again and it's still the same problem.

The rpm sensor shows about 200rpm on turnover.

The scanner is showing that the cam and crank sensors go out of alignment very briefly on turnover - am I right in assuming that this would be enough to stop the ECU from telling the engine to start up?

Is the crank gear / reluctor ring a relatively easy thing to change once the timing belt is loose?

[C3CAR]

Latest update is that I've changed the sensor again and it's still the same problem.

The rpm sensor shows about 200rpm on turnover.

The scanner is showing that the cam and crank sensors go out of alignment very briefly on turnover - am I right in assuming that this would be enough to stop the ECU from telling the engine to start up?

Is the crank gear / reluctor ring a relatively easy thing to change once the timing belt is loose?

Timing locked off, cambelt off, TVD/crank pulley and belt off, then you have access to the timing pulley with reluctor ring. It is on a keyed shaft, so you may need a puller to get it off the shaft.

Citroen C3 reluctor ring on crank timing

There are a couple of 1.6 HDi engines fitted in the A51, none of them puretech. But they all have similar timing gear.


The fault you have is a mismatch between CAM and CRANK timing. As you see in the live data, an odd hiccup that flags a serious fault to the ECU.

CAM and CRANK should always be synchronised, at any speed.

The fault is a intermittent mismatch between the 2 signals.

[Ozvtr]

The fault you have is a mismatch between CAM and CRANK timing. As you see in the live data, an odd hiccup that flags a serious fault to the ECU.

CAM and CRANK should always be synchronised, at any speed.

The fault is a intermittent mismatch between the 2 signals.

Where is the CAM shaft sensor? Or to put it another way how is the engine ECU determining that the cam shaft and crank shaft out of alignment?

Brimclell have you checked the timing yet? You were going to check it a few posts back. Diesels are not my thing but I would say setting the timing with pins would be the go? The engine can run fine with the alignment out by a tooth or so (not the best but will still run) but if the ECU can monitor the alignment it probably wont like it (as mentioned).

[C3CAR]

The fault you have is a mismatch between CAM and CRANK timing. As you see in the live data, an odd hiccup that flags a serious fault to the ECU.

CAM and CRANK should always be synchronised, at any speed.

The fault is a intermittent mismatch between the 2 signals.

Where is the CAM shaft sensor? Or to put it another way how is the engine ECU determining that the cam shaft and crank shaft out of alignment?

It depends on which diesel engine is actually fitted as it is not known yet. But the cam sensor on some of the diesels is up and behind the cam pulley as shown in the electrical diagram below;

cam sensor location

IC60_maf-crank-cam-wiring-interconnect60.jpg (69.01 KiB) Viewed 1715 times

and another diesel engine the ECU checks the cam/crank signal synchronisation - because the belt doesn't change length it is a known constant.

cam crank synchronised SID820 ECU

cam-crank-synchronised.png (22.89 KiB) Viewed 1715 times

but without knowing which engine, it is not possible to look up the exact information.



on the older diesels a cam/crank sync fault drops power considerably and the exhaust blows smoke (did that ). I would image blowing smoke is no-no for modern engines, so they just shut it down?

P0339 Citroen C3

[brimclell]

Hi C3Car,
I've checked the timing a couple of times now and cam, fuel and crank can all be locked off OK so I assume that means the timing is OK.

I've changed the cam sensor as well just to make sure that it wasn't at fault (bit of a faff, bit hidden away).

I'm waiting on a new crank gear with reluctor ring coming and in the meantime I think I've managed to kill the battery as well so I'll need to replace it too -even after leaving it on charge for a day it was still only showing 10.7v.

[brimclell]

Ok, latest update.

Changed the battery and checked the timing again still no change.

Had it recovered to a garage who have ran various tests and checks including
Getting the same P0339 fault code despite everything lining up ok and crank and cam showing alignment
Bypassing the fuel system
Blanking the egr valve
Checking airflow in and out
Giving it a bump start

and they can't find anything wrong either other than it won't start.

By squirting easystart into the air intake they got it going as well but only until it ran out.

So off for some some specialist diagnostics today and let's hope they find something.

I'm at my wit's end.

[C3driver52]

Ok, latest update.

Changed the battery and checked the timing again still no change.

Had it recovered to a garage who have ran various tests and checks including
Getting the same P0339 fault code despite everything lining up ok and crank and cam showing alignment
Bypassing the fuel system
Blanking the egr valve
Checking airflow in and out
Giving it a bump start

and they can't find anything wrong either other than it won't start.

By squirting easystart into the air intake they got it going as well but only until it ran out.

So off for some some specialist diagnostics today and let's hope they find something.

I'm at my wit's end.

I think the way forward for this is to connect it to diagbox/lexia. Check immo and ECU fuel delivery.

I think you may have two faults. One P0339 and this won't clear, even with the fault fixed until the engine runs under its own control.

I would suspect immo as the second because it runs under easy start, so that's all good. But it does indicate the ECU is inhibiting the fuel injectors.
With no other faults showing its down to lexia to check the immo.

Either that, or you have P0399 and the root cause is still present. That is the ECU not seeing the crank signal that it expects.

It's is not an egr fault.

[brimclell]

Finally got the car repaired yesterday and it was the reluctor ring after all.

Apparently it had a loose magnet in it and that was just enough to throw it off.

Given the time it's taken and the cost of the part Vs professional diagnosis alone I'd suggest to anyone having a similar problem just change the crank gear and see if it helps.

Anyway, back on the road just in time for on MOT. Fingers crossed that goes better.

[brimclell]

Well final one on this thread.

Failed MoT for missing front exhaust bracket so will get underneath it tomorrow and see what I am working with.