Turbo actuator, 1.4 HDI 16V

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My Name: Albi62

Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 120000
Trim Level: VT
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)

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Hi all,
Had problems with lack of power at times particulary at low revs/off idle.
Renewed the electrovalve and it was like having a new car!
Sometime later the fault reoccurred, especially after a long drive on a hot day and having to cross numerous traffic lights in the town. In the morning with a cold engine it was fine, seemed to be affected most when hot.
So, did some research on the net on variable vane turbos and came to the following conclusion:
At idle the turbo should be at max boost (actuator rod fully retracted), makes sense cos you want power straight away.
Checked mine and it had about 5 mm of travel to the fully up position, this could be due to various faults: leaks in the vacuum pipework, electrovalve internal leakage, actuator membrane porous etc.
Measured the vacuum at the actuator and got 0.4 bar (engine idling) don't know whether this is good or bad, the only info I could find was 0.9 bar at the vacuum pump (haven't been able to measure this yet).
Any way, adjusted the actuator rod by shortening it by approx 2.5 turns so that at idle it was fully retracted. Be aware that the two lock nuts above and below the adjuster are:
Upper: RH thread, Lower: LH thread.
In practice to shorten the rod length the adjuster (like a turnbuckle) is turned anti clockwise, lengthen is clockwise.
Now the car pulls like a good un off idle, I can cruise along at 30 mph in forth gear and still accelerate without any problems-happy days!
Been driving it like this for about 3 months, no EML.
Hope this helps, be interesting to hear from other people particularly where the actuator is at idle.

Cheers :)
Citroen C3 turbo vane adjustment
Citroen C3 turbo vane adjustment
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2634
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Albi62 wrote:Any way, adjusted the actuator rod by shortening it by approx 2.5 turns so that at idle it was fully retracted.
Thanks for the tip Albi62
Albi62 wrote:Hope this helps, be interesting to hear from other people particulary where the actuator is at idle.
I agree :)
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Albi62 wrote:Measured the vacuum at the actuator and got 0.4 bar (engine idling) don't know whether this is good or bad, the only info I could find was 0.9 bar at the vacuum pump (haven't been able to measure this yet).
Vacuum pump:
- Connect the tool [1] onto the vacuum pump (1).
- Start the engine.
- Wait 30 seconds.
The vacuum value should be 0.9 ± 0.1 bar at idle.
I would expect the vacuum system to be sealed. The vacuum reading at the vacuum pump should be the same all over the vacuum system.

The vacuum pump is used on a diesel engine to generate vacuum for the control and braking system, if you have a low vacuum reading, I would expect a leak somewhere.

You can isolate different parts of the system - the services - like EGR electrovalve or Servo and generate independent vacuum with a Mighty Vac type of tool or disconnect the lot and see what the vacuum pump can manage to generate.
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My Name: Albi62

Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 120000
Trim Level: VT
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)

Post

Arfur Dent wrote:I would expect the vacuum system to be sealed. The vacuum reading at the vacuum pump should be the same all over the vacuum system.
I agree, but considering the car is 12 years old there is bound to be some "wear" in the system pertaining to leakage.
Funnily enough I can remember not long after I bought the car a strange noise after turning the engine off, this was actually the vacuum depleting, I could tell because the brake pedal no longer had assistance, this ocurred intermitantly, oh well :?
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My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2634
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 90 times

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Albi62 wrote:Hope this helps, be interesting to hear from other people particulary where the actuator is at idle.
I have just checked a 16v HDi 1.4 with 110000 on the clock and its got about the same excess movement at idle as yours, 5mm.


The pull away wasn't great, but acceptable for driving, but I adjusted the actuator by a similar amount as yours which left a very slight movement in the vane adjuster at idle. I don't think it should be too tight against its max :)
Turbo variable vane actuator assembly C3 16v HDi
Turbo variable vane actuator assembly C3 16v HDi
adjusting the turbo on a C3 1.4 HDI diesel 16v
adjusting the turbo on a C3 1.4 HDI diesel 16v
The lock nuts and adjuster need a 10mm open ended spanner.

The car started and ran fine, drove better at pulling away but I will give it a long term test to see how it goes. Thank you for the tip.

vacuum measure point C3 HDi 16v 1.4 Diesel
vacuum measure point C3 HDi 16v 1.4 Diesel
This could be an good place to measure the vacuum system using a lo gauge like this (from here)
My Name: walt

Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:44 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 115000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Hi, thanks for the tip. I've had similar symptoms, although my turbo actuator rod only moved a few mm off the bottom and had most of the travel left unused at idle. I had poor throttle response until about 2200-2500 rpm (varied day to day and as time went on), then engine picked up fine, but gear changes that dropped it below that cause the lag again. I added 2 full rotations and the response improve greatly, not like it used to be but lag nowhere near as bad. After getting a vacuum gauge/pump and getting the holiday travel out of the way I did some investigations.
Like you my vacuum measured at the turbo actuator was 400 mbar at idle. Vacuum at vacuum pump was approx 900 mbar at idle (all fine). Vacuum at egr valve was just under 700mbar at idle. I applied a vacuum to the turbo actuator of upto 900mbar, the actuator topped out at just under 700mbar any extra vacuum made no difference. So I figured the electrovalve on the turbo line is probably not working as it would not shift above it's 400 mbar no matter what revs or blipping the throttle (all under no load), whereas the egr one would vary quite a bit dependant on throttle and blipping it.
On replacing the electrovalve (sorry if this isn't the citroen name I've seen so many different names to describe them), the vacuum at idle increased to just under 500mbar and although didn't vary much on increasing the revs slowly, it did respond to blipping the throttle and went upto just under 700mbar (very approx as needle was moving around a lot). The engine is now responding very well, as good as new? Can't remember that was over 14 years ago!
On looking around the web I found a pierburg document about these valves which said the valve should show a min of 480mbars so my old one looks like it was out of spec and the new one is fine. It also says that these valves fail because of water or dirt entering and also mentions that high ambient temperatures may cause intermittent faults (fits your symptoms on the replacement valve?). I guess if mine failed because of dirt/water ingress then maybe the new one will have a limited life.... Maybe I'll check each component of the vacuum system for leaks at some point.
BTW the pierburg documents that I found helpful were:
https://www.pierburg-service.de/ximages/ ... en_web.pdf
https://az25411.vo.msecnd.net/pdf/5/pg_ ... en_web.pdf
https://www.pierburg-service.de/ximages/ ... en_web.pdf
I hope someone finds this useful because I found this sites users incredibly helpful having read through many threads to help me understand the cars faults, how it works, diagnose and replace.
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2634
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 90 times

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Thanks for the information :)
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