My Project

Hi.

Just want to introduce myself and this little project I have.

I bought a C3 1.6 16V Exclusive 2004 about year ago with one specific purpose: Convert it to Electric.

But before converting it, I decided to run with it for a while collecting as much information I could about how it does on Gas. Being an old car, and leaving in a country with really bad roads (Brazil), it had a lot of things to be fixed first. The car is still giving me trouble at this stage (will post a few of those in the forum), but is almost ready to create a baseline so I can compare once it becomes electric in about 12 months from now.

One of the questions you might have is "Why convert? Why not buying a new Electric car". Well, there are a lot of reasons for doing it (one being we have no real option of electric cars in Brazil), but the main one is to be able to compare the same car running on petrol and then on Electric. From acceleration to driver comfort, cost, pros and cons.

Multiple sensors are gradually being put in the car and small onboard computers (raspberry pi's) run 24x7 collecting information and tracking the car. All information collected will be available to anyone interested in the experiment trough a website.

Well, thats the idea so far. Before pushing it forward, I'am taking a break for a reality check before moving forward.

I got to know the C3 a bit over this last 10 months, its a great little car. But I also came to realized how complex and temperamental the electronics in the car are. It was chosen due to the small size, good cargo capacity and Electric drive. Also, being Lexia so ready available, it looked like everything could be solved in the garage. It doesn't seems so simple right now.

So, now I'am coming to the forum searching for knowledge on how feasible the project is. Questions I still don't have answers myself are:

- How will the ECU behave with the car in movement but with no data from the engine (MAF/LOAD/RPM and etc). With all the interrelations done by the ECU, I wonder if maybe not even the air conditioning (i.e.: activate the compressor clutch) or worse, the electric steering, will work without data from the engine. ABS? Things like that can get really complex if the ECU runs on warnings all the time of get stuck every once in a while in ECO mode by not knowing what the heck is happening in the car.

- We will have to accommodate vacuum pumps for breaks and a separate electric motor for the aircon compressor, but finding specifications for those itens is something we had very little success at finding those.

- We found pictures of someone with a green C3 converted to Electric. But other than the pictures, we found no information about it. I hope I can find some knowledge about it in the forum to hear some lessons learned if possible.

- Also, afaik the Citroen C1 had a large number of conversions a few years back from a company in the UK. I wonder how similar the cars are and if something can be learned from that endeavor (other than it costs a lot of money, that part is really understood by now ).

So, this is a long introduction and an invitation to everyone who is curious about how to make this work and want to jump in. Over the next few weeks I'll be adding some information about what we did so far and the doubts we have.

Thanks in advance.

Hi joboehl

joboehl wrote:Just want to introduce myself and this little project I have.

I bought a C3 1.6 16V Exclusive 2004 about year ago with one specific purpose: Convert it to Electric.

Welcome to the forum, it sounds like quite a project you have there.

joboehl wrote: All information collected will be available to anyone interested in the experiment trough a website.

That would be interesting, when you get the site up can you post a link please.

joboehl wrote:I got to know the C3 a bit over this last 10 months, its a great little car. But I also came to realized how complex and temperamental the electronics in the car are. It was chosen due to the small size, good cargo capacity and Electric drive. Also, being Lexia so ready available, it looked like everything could be solved in the garage. It doesn't seems so simple right now.

I think may people don't realise how advanced the C3 was for its year (2002). The body is a quantum leap in computer control and this can often get people quite stuck when they expect to see a bank of relays to change.

joboehl wrote:Well, thats the idea so far. Before pushing it forward, I'am taking a break for a reality check before moving forward.

Good idea. I can see some issues already.

joboehl wrote:So, now I'am coming to the forum searching for knowledge on how feasible the project is. Questions I still don't have answers myself are:

- How will the ECU behave with the car in movement but with no data from the engine (MAF/LOAD/RPM and etc). With all the interrelations done by the ECU, I wonder if maybe not even the air conditioning (i.e.: activate the compressor clutch) or worse, the electric steering, will work without data from the engine. ABS? Things like that can get really complex if the ECU runs on warnings all the time of get stuck every once in a while in ECO mode by not knowing what the heck is happening in the car.

You will need to identify which ECU is going to be an issue. Engine functions are done by the engine ECU and the body control for doors and lights is done by the BSI. ABS is by the ABS ECU on the ABS block and wheel sensors. Keep lexia in the car and you can read faults as you go. Any problems will be indicated in lexia.

joboehl wrote:- We will have to accommodate vacuum pumps for breaks and a separate electric motor for the aircon compressor, but finding specifications for those itens is something we had very little success at finding those.

There is a vacuum pump on the diesel engine that provides vacuum and its just driven by the camshaft. Drive it from a 12v motor. A/C compressor picks up drive from the alternator belt which is driven by the crank pulley, so pick up drive from a 12v motor and a belt.

joboehl wrote:- Also, afaik the Citroen C1 had a large number of conversions a few years back from a company in the UK. I wonder how similar the cars are and if something can be learned from that endeavor (other than it costs a lot of money, that part is really understood by now

I think you will have a power to weight problem. The C3 is much heavier than a C1, so you will need more batteries to deliver more power, but that brings more weight, which in turn needs more batteries and more cost. There is a point where an electric car weight will make it poor to drive without an improvement in battery technology or motor technology to get more power to weight.
The C1 was not chosen for electric just because they happened to have on to hand.....

An alternative conversion could be LPG or natural gas or something the could use the existing parts but run on an alternative fuel.