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My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 333 times

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I took yesterday (Monday) off to see if I can sort this aircon stuff out.
As I said, I could detect a leak on the compressor side of the low pressure flexible hose. That's all fine and good but can I get it fixed?
There weren't a lot of places saying that they could fix aircon hoses but I knew that the line could be fixed, it would just be a matter of finding someone.
Anyway, a long story short, I literally tracked down a fellow who could repair the line.
It involved brazing new fittings and installing a new hose. This cost me $110, about 60 pound.
Unfortunately I was in a hurry and didn't take a photo of the old and new fittings but here is a photo of one end of the flexible hose and the new fitting. In this photo it's already installed in the car.
aircon 006.jpg
OK so now it's time to rip the car apart and remove the old line and install the repaired line. Remember, I have the wrecker C3 and the line I have already pulled off the car. Yes I know, it's confusing!!

aircon 003.jpg
Well I'm getting pretty proficient at pulling the car apart now.
After I installed the repaired line I put a low charge of refrigerant in the system. Before I put the car back together I'll have better access to the lines and connections.
My plan is to go over the connections and fittings with my trusty dish washing liquid and water solution.
Gauge says about 92psi. That should be enough.
aircon 005.jpg
I couldn't find any leaks, so I put the car back together and charged up the system. By this time it was evening and I took the car for a trip around the block and the system ran fine. Well I know the system runs fine...it's the refrigerant leaks that are the problem!!

This morning the aircon performs well on the way to work, so far so good.

After work it all turns to custard!!
The outside temperature this afternoon is between 38 and 40 degrees Celsius. Mmm a bit warm but no worries I have freshly gassed aircon!! WRONG!!
The aircon runs for about 20 seconds then becomes warm..WTF. Turn the aircon off and on, same, runs for about 20 seconds and gets warm. for the 3/4 hour trip home (at 39 degrees) if I turn the compressor on it only runs for 20 seconds or so then warm. Sometimes the compressor wont even kick in. #$@%!

So I got home and parked the car in the car port but I leave the engine running. Open the bonnet, switch the aircon compressor on and watch it kick in. It runs for about 20 seconds then the compressor cuts out. Hmm. The temperature in the car port is still about 38 degrees.
I had gone through a few possible scenarios on the drive home. From loss of refrigerant to the compressor clutch slipping.
But it looks like the engine ECU is commanding the compressor clutch to disengage. For the few seconds the compressor runs, the interior vents do get a bit cold. So It doesn't look like refrigerant loss.
There is nothing for it but to put the service gauges on the refrigerant lines and see what is going on.
Well the "high side" is about 250 psi... high but not too unusual. The "low side" is a little over 40 psi, that's a bit high!
I have overcharged the system and the high ambient temperatures are causing the system pressures to be too high.
Once the compressor kicks in, it takes about 20 seconds for the pressures to rise above the "cut off" point and the engine ECU disengages the compressor clutch.
That's an easy fix, just bleed off some refrigerant.
I bled off about 10-20 grams of refrigerant (NOT R134a) and took the car for a run. The ambient temperature was still about 38 degrees, so it was a good test.
Aircon ran fine and did not cut out.
Yeah! Lets see what happens tomorrow.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 333 times

Post

Well it's virtually a month since the last post and the aircon seems to be running fine.
Now, leaks can be insidious and take a long time to manifest themselves. Yes, I could put the gauges on the system but unfortunately the ambient temperature WILL effect the readings. Meaning that on a cool day the pressures will be down and on a hot day the pressures will be up. Even just a few PSI could fool you! Big changes in pressures are easy to spot but slight leaks might take a while. In the very least the system is not leaking as badly as it was!
The performance of the aircon is (in my opinion) ...fair. I had the other C3 and I have a C2 and all of their performances are...fair. The interior volume, large glass area and relatively small condenser limit the AC's performance. I would like to see a "blower" fan on the front of the condenser to improve "static" performance. That is; when the car is in slow traffic or stopped, the "sucking" of the radiator fan does not draw enough cool air across the condenser. Out on the open road the AC's performance is much better with lots of fresh air across the condenser.
Having said all that, when the outside temperatures rise above 35 degres, at least I'm...comfortable. :lol:
So it's really just a waiting game now.
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My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1975
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 134 times
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Ozvtr wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:19 am I would like to see a "blower" fan on the front of the condenser to improve "static" performance. That is; when the car is in slow traffic or stopped, the "sucking" of the radiator fan does not draw enough cool air across the condenser. Out on the open road the AC's performance is much better with lots of fresh air across the condenser.
That sounds like a great idea.

Project for the future? I would like to the see the plans :D
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 333 times

Post

It could be hooked up to the compressor clutch coil via a relay. So every time the compressor kicks in, the fan comes on.

Normally there are pulses coming from the engine ECU. From about every second, "slowing down" (the number of pulses), to no volts. Buy the way, fan controller works in "reverse". That is; no volts (off) on the control line turns the fan full on. Its a "fail-safe". If the line is cut, or something goes wrong then the fan comes on.
So running an extra fan from the fan controller signal line would be difficult.
User avatar
My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1975
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Post

Or just have a new circuit with a microswitch with a flag/flap and relay to power the fan. When the car is moving the forwards the wind resistance pushes against the flag that switches off the fan. No movement forward (wind blowing the flag) and the fan comes on.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 333 times

Post

I have often wondered if the radiator fan runs when the car gets over a certain speed?
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 333 times

Post

My brothers ex-wifes' daughter (are you keeping up? I'll be asking questions later) bought a Peugeot 207 (2007). I know it's not a C3 but I know some of the newer C3's have the EP6 engine.
The Gorilla who has worked on this thing before us has broken virtually every electrical connector on the engine!!! Stripped nearly every plastic thread and used a gallon of RTV on the rocker cover gasket (and it was still leaking).
My brother and I worked on this thing for 2 days to correct (what I would normally call) minor repairs. Most of the time was spent fixing the damage that this twit had wrought upon this poor little car!
One thing that was on our list was to investigate was a "pinking sensor" fault that turned up in Peugeot Planet. You know Peugeot Planet, the application like Citroen's "LEXIA", only 100 time more professional!! LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist a poke.
OK, so (if you don't know) the pinking sensor is also known as the knock sensor and is typically bolted to the back of engine "block". On this 207 it turned out to be accessible only from under the car and obscured by the sub-frame and the right hand drive shaft!! Impossible to get to. While the knock sensor and it's electrical connector were intact, the electrical plug on the wiring loom was smashed! WTF!? How did this happen?? I have the ability to replace this plug but access is impossible. How, when it is impossible to get to this connector, did it get broken? Fortunately it shouldn't be a fault that brings on the check engine light.

The biggest repair was the front left shock upper mount. Sound familiar to any one? There was the usual pain in getting the knuckle off the ball joint.
The strut had not been removed from the car however the upper nut and retaining nut had been "disturbed". The whole upper mount was not assembled correctly and was sitting incorrectly in the chassis mounting cup!! Of course the upper mount had failed and this idiot decided to pull things apart, without having a clue what he was doing!!
When we came to replace the upper mount we had trouble with the plastic adapter that allows the spring to fit onto the bearing. If there is any tension on the plastic adapter, it wont fit correctly onto the shoulder of the shock shaft. Consequently, the adapter sits on a wonky angle and the retaining nuts won't thread all the way down. Exactly the way this buffoon had left it! We finally figured it out, got the strut back together and put it back into the car.
I don't understand why PSA have so many different upper strut mounts. After replacing ones in the C3 and one in a 207, I have no idea why they are all different!!! Physically, they are so similar. Just very small differences. Not worth designing different mounts...if that's the way you are going to do it!!
P.S. The shape of the upper mount is virtually identical to the 2003-2009 C3 except that there is no locating pin that goes through the chassis. The mount for the C4 is round but in all other ways is the same as the C3's. WTF!? WHY? In fact I believe the MK1 version of the C3's upper mount would have substituted as there was a hole in the chassis that the pin would have fitted through. They could design most of the chassis cups the same and have the same upper mounts! :roll:

I'm sorry but I'm not impressed with the EP6...well not from a mechanics perspective. Very cramped, complicated and a sensor for every thing! I would not like to remove anything to do with the inlet manifold. In fact I would not like to replace anything "on the back of the engine"!! This includes the starter motor.
Hopefully the C3 has more clearance between the back of the engine and the fire wall and the sub-frame doesn't obstruct removal of things from the back of the engine.

Hopefully the car will be registered soon and I will see how the EP6 runs.