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My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Ok, got the dash out. Not as hard as getting it out of the black car but I guess I learned a few things from that.
dash001.jpg
So lets have a look and see what our problem with the air distribution is.
dash002.jpg
WHAT THE PROVERBIAL [email protected]#k!!!! "Well there's ya problem!". I don't even own a pen like that. A time bomb from the previous owner?
HMM. I was going to replace the air distribution box but I am reticent to disturb the seals and things. I was expecting it to be some kind of failure of the 'box.
I think I will just flush out the evaporator with alcohol to remove any contaminants. The TX valve seems to be working OK, so I will just leave things the way they are.
Well next is to put the dash back!!
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Hmm while looking at the two dashes, I noticed the wiring harnesses were different. For the later model (2005) the connector for the climate control was missing. Well, missing from the BSI harness.
airbox 013.jpg
dash010.jpg
On the earlier model (2003) the connector was on the loom from the BSI. But on the 2005 loom it wasn't there. Of course it must be somewhere, it connects into the aircon/blower/control panel wiring loom. I did not pay attention when I was removing the dash from the 2005 car. It might have something to to with the fact that one has climate control and the other has just manual control? I don't think so, I think it's a revision that they made to the wiring.
It's not a problem, I will just swap the looms over, from one dash to the other.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

While I have the dash out and better access to the BSI I'm going to remove it and poll the EEPROM for the engine ECU security code. The original owner would have got a plastic card the size of a credit card with the engine ECU security code on it. Well in the passing years, it's been lost.
You cant code in any keys without it.
Do I really need it? Well not at the moment. I can make a valet key, that is one that will open the car from the drivers door and start the car. But I will need to buy a brand new key if I want to add a remote fob.
First we need to pull the BSI apart and find the EEPROM. The EEPROM is memory used by the BSI's processor. It contains data about the VIN, the mileage, the remote locking key fobs and the security code for the engine ECU. I have access to everything except the key fob data.
BSI001.jpg
BSI002.jpg
The next thing is to download all the data on the EEPROM. For this I use a reader/programmer. It just hooks onto the chip and plugs unto the USB socket. There are a few adapters required.
BSI003.jpg
Here is the "dump" of the HEX code.
BSI004.jpg
Next step is to put the HEX dump through a program to get/change the info you want. I'm not going to go through that here, lest I be accused of being a pirate...aaarrrr!
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Quick update.
I have pulled the front end off the car.
front_end 002.jpg
I wanted to change the aircon condenser and gain better access to the engine and auto box, so I took out the radiator, condenser and support. The compressor will come out and also the alternator, so I can clean the oil residue from behind them.

The condenser is toast!!
front_end 001.jpg
The corrosion through out is not good. I will be replacing everything accept the evaporator in the cabin. As I outlined above, I considered it better to not disturb the distribution box. I just hope the internals of the evaporator are OK. There is no corrosion on the TX valve and the pipe joints at the TX valve are good. I can only hope the acids stayed in the lower part of the system.
I flushed the evaporator out with brake cleaner and got all the old oil out.
I have replacement parts from the wrecker C3 that look in good condition. The oil is clean and clear. That's a good sign.

Oh. If you are wondering what I'm driving around in, it's a 1984 Ford Meteor. It's basically a Mazda 323 sedan. You would have had them over there but I don't know what the model would have been called. Judging by the rust, I don't think they would have lasted very long over there. The rust is only in the bottom of the drivers door and in the boot lid. I have owned/maintained one of these in one form or another since 1985 (or so). I think I have owned this one for a little over 10 years. I replaced the head gasket over Christmas but still am loosing a bit of coolant. I think it has something to do with the radiator.
car 001.jpg
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Small update.
Now that I'm happy the air distribution box is serviceable, I have replaced the dash but only stuck it in position. My older son came over and helped me install the dash from the black car into the silver car. Currently it's just held in place by a couple of bolts. While is was relatively easy to get the dash out (by myself), it required a bit more precision to but it back. There were alignment tabs to line up and I didn't want to damage the foam seals on the air distribution box.
update 002.jpg



I have removed the alternator and mounting bracket. Removed the aircon compressor and mounting bracket and cleaned up the leaked oil from the engine block where it had run down from the head gasket leak.
update 005.jpg


Yes I know, I'm taking my time, but I'm not in a hurry. I actually have a bit of trepidation about installing the new head bolts and torquing them to yield. I have not done that before.
While I procrastinate about the engine, I will put the interior back together.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

loom01.jpg
I was sort of wrong about there being no connector for the dash to distribution box on the dash harness attached to the back of the 2005 dash. The connector can bee seen on the left of the original picture. I mistook that connector for the one that plugs into the BSI and had the harness around the wrong way. After doing a bit of thinking and digging I found that Citroen had 'moved' the wiring that goes from the BSI to to the dash. They moved this wiring to spare points on a connector already being used, the black connector under the glove box. This reduced the number of connectors joining the dash to the car from 5 to 4.
connect 001.jpg
connect 002.jpg
So what does all this mean? Well if you are removing the dash and you have a car built in 2005 you might not need to remove the connector at the BSI.
Some time in 2005 PSA started preparing the production line for the new facelift versions of the C2 and C3. The face lift versions would have very slight changes to the exterior. Big changes to the interior and a new "BUS" electrical communications between electronic devices. BUT as I said they started preparing while still making the old pre-facelift cars! So there are some "hybrid" versions of the pre-facelift cars that have features of the new facelift cars. So, for example, my black wrecker C3 has a different wiring lay out. The instrument cluster has orange LEDs lighting the temp and fuel level pictograms. Facelift style turn repeaters on the front wings. New style BSM housing.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Well time has come to replace the two modulator valves in the transmission valve body.
The shifting action of the gearbox is OK but the transmission tends to hold off too long for the torque converter to lock up in second and the shift feels a bit "rubbery".
So I removed the gearbox ECU, then the valve body cover, then the valve body.
Bugger!! It has the borg-warner modulator valves!! How can I tell? The electrical connectors are white.
valvebody 001.jpg
valvebody 002.jpg
These valves were used on the early AL4 transmissions (the transmission in the C3). Apparently around 2003 they changed them to a slightly different electrovalve and you can tell, as the newer valves have black connectors.
What's the problem? I was going to change them anyway?
Well, the modulator valves regulate the pressure by turning on and off very quickly. Unfortunately the frequency that the 'white' connector version and the 'black' connector versions operate at are different. So to run the 'black connector version valves' on this car requires a different program running on the gearbox ECU!! :cry:
AH! But hang on! The donor black wrecker C3 had black modulator valves (I did a tutorial on changing the valves). So I should be able to use that gearbox ECU. It's not 'coded' to the car so it should swap over just fine. It might have to change some of its 'adaptables' but it should be OK.

You guys must think I'm making this shi...stuff...up?

Edit from OZ of the future (sounds like a super hero name): The gearbox ECU software revision was 9658776080. I had heard that revision would run both the black and white valves. After putting it all back together and getting the car back on the road, the gearbox runs fine.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

Alright so I finally got the [email protected] to remove the cylinder head and replace the head gasket.
I wish I didn't!!!
When I opened up this tin of worms I was not happy!
headgasket 002.jpg
headgasket 003.jpg
headgasket 004.jpg
headgasket 006.jpg
headgasket 007.jpg
headgasket 010.jpg
I thought this engine wasn't in too bad of a condition. But that was only looking on the outside. Inside...OH Boy. Well to be fair, it could be worse.
The head gasket is in poor condition but I expected that. What I didn't expect was damage to the piston and head from Foreign Object Damage.
Something has gotten into the the #4 cylinder and done damage to the piston crown and the squish band. There are built up mounds and pock marks. I have no idea what happened! I just hope it was from a previous owner and not something that I did.
There was no damage to the catalytic converter I installed, so it was done prior to that.
While it is a bit dodgy, I might scrape the head and piston and get rid of the high spots. Replace the head gasket and re-use the head bolts.
I still have the wrecker C3 engine and it looks OK but I thought the same of this engine!!
I'll remove the head on the wrecker engine and asses the innards. If its good, replace the head gasket and put the engine into the silver C3. Then pull the bad engine down and replace required parts. A BIG project!
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 997
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 285 times

Post

I chiseled and draw filed the high spots in the head. Not an ideal solution.
gasket 002.jpg
gasket 003.jpg
The best solution would be to weld the head and mill it flat. That aint gona happen. Well not yet anyway.
The damage from the gasket (the dark area) is only superficial and not on a mating surface. If it fails, well, spare motor.
There is one very small indentation in the squish band of the #3 cylinder. someone has not been careful with loose objects and the inlet manifold exposed!
I think the head gasket has been replaced!! It does not look like the OEM gasket. Could something have been let loose in the engine when the gasket was replaced?
I may rebuild the engine one day but it's not worth my time at the moment. Again...spare motor!
The exhaust valve seems to be Ok and its holding a seal.
Next the block. Clean up the mating surfaces and get the gunk out of the water gallery!
My Name: Stewart H

Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:38 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 108000
Trim Level: LX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 2 times

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Very interesting, how lucky you are to have all those rust free bodyshells, it makes your efforts worthwhile, I remember this on the old BX forum, we gazed at the perfect bodies with beautiful pipework in your scrapyards, and you lusted after the unfaded dashboards and interiors in ours, please keep up this thread, thanks for sharing it.