Three failed clutches in 8,000miles!

We have just aquired a 2008 C3 1.4 petrol 2008. The clutch was slipping very badly and we have had it and the rear oil seal replaced a couple of weeks ago. It is slipping again after only about 400 miles. Total milage about 8,000 from new. No evidence it has ever been serviced so the engine oil and filter has been changed. Runs/starts/ goes very well except:-

History

This car had a new clutch at 2,700 miles after being recovered from the roadside as the clutch was 'burnt out'

The clutch was replaced by a Citroen garage together with the rear oil seal as far as we can tell by the paperwork.

My son and girlfriend were given the car with about 7,500 miles on the clock very recently. The clutch was slipping badly.

We took the car to a transmission specialist who replaced the clutch again. A lot of oil was present in the bell housing and the entire clutch and rear engine oil seal were replaced (about two weeks ago).

Car driven down to south coast and back everything fine.

Over easter went up to Yorkshire and clutch starts to slip. By time home to south bucks slipping quite badly.

Spots of oil on the drive. Apparently oil under the bell housing, possibly gearbox oil but can't be certain.

Car returned to transmission people who cannot understand the problem. Car checked for other oil leaks e.g. from the rocker cover; all clear.

Question any idea where this oil could be coming from? Could it be from the rear gearbox seal? or through the gearbox casing itself? or somehow around the rear engine oil seal? has anyone experienced anything like this? Or could there be another explanation for these clutches going.


In despair Adrian

Hello boaconstrictor

boaconstrictor wrote: This car had a new clutch at 2,700 miles after being recovered from the roadside as the clutch was 'burnt out'

there is a topic on bad clutches on the C3 here - bad clutches on the C3.

boaconstrictor wrote:A lot of oil was present in the bell housing and the entire clutch and rear engine oil seal were replaced (about two weeks ago).

This is bad, there should never be oil in the bell housing.

boaconstrictor wrote:
Spots of oil on the drive. Apparently oil under the bell housing, possibly gearbox oil but can't be certain.

Gear box oil smells quite bad, engine oil tends to be dark in colour and is easily compared with the oil on the dipstick. Put samples on both on some absorbent paper to compare. Knowing which oil its is will make a difference on where the oil comes from.

boaconstrictor wrote:Question any idea where this oil could be coming from? Could it be from the rear gearbox seal? or through the gearbox casing itself? or somehow around the rear engine oil seal? has anyone experienced anything like this? Or could there be another explanation for these clutches going.

Yes, Yes, no. You need to take a sample of the leaking oil to identify it, then remove the gear box to clean up, replace the clutch parts and the source of the leak. Nothing simple

Hello Guru
Thanks for the response
I am new to the C3 site and managed to miss most of the posts re problem clutches. I looked up the other posts however, following your suggestion. Interesting to see how many were heavily criticising Citroen and its dealerships. Many years ago I had a Citroen BX 1.9 diesel (secondhand) which I ran hard for three years with no problems except an overheating issue which Citroen dealers said was a blown head gasket costing £100s to rectify I did not believe them. I took the car to an independent who said it was a blocked radiator. They changed it for well under £100 including diagnosing the fault etc. Enough said!

The C3 is now back with the transmission people who are going to dismantle it all again, they are a bit stumped to know why this oil is getting in which is why I posted to see if there were any other common problems with this clutch set up I can get them to look for. I notice there are others reporting premature failure but little mention of the cause/result. I think oil contamination is the most likely with this car as you say.

Thanks for your advice.

]OK, the C3 is back on the road, fingers crossed, I thought contributors might be interested to know how it all went.

The gearbox was stripped out again inspection showed that the clutch was heavily oil contaminated again.

Oil identified as gearbox oil.

Rear engine oil seal was dry

The bell housing was cleaned up by the transmission people

The gearbox seal was removed. This is on a short tube.

Now things get difficult, the transmission people think there is nothing wrong with the seal; I am not convinced and look carefully at the shaft with a torch and magnifying glass. I think there may be little pieces of rubber stuck to the shaft, however I can not be certain.

So where is the oil coming from? we phone Citroen who suggest cracks in the bellhousing, missing rubber bungs, or of course the oil seal or there are two bolts that come through into the the bell housing from the inside of the gearbox which should be sealed.

The transmission people think it might be a porous casting or the bolts. They suggest stripping out the entire gearbox to inspect the bellhousing from the other side. 5 hours work? Not on:-

I check the bellhousing very carefully, it is actually a very good smooth casting. Much better than others I have seen. no evidence of cracks and no evidence of oil leaking through the bolts. In any case I cannot believe they would leak that badly so quickly to be the cause. Cant see any rubber bungs at all or other openings. I am convinced it is the gearbox seal even though the old one looks feels OK. I have a theory that this seal was damaged by overheating when the original clutch was 'burnt out'

So another new clutch, gearbox seal, and sealer over the end of the internal bolts. The gearbox is put back and everything appears to be OK. So far only done about 100 miles, we are holding our collective breaths that the true cause has been found. One last thought is that we know from the paperwork that the gearbox seal was not replaced during the fitting of the three previous clutches!

I will keep you posted if there are any future developments. Adrian

Fingers crossed for you.

For information, I've experienced porous castings on other cars in the past. In my case it was an engine block and the oil seepage was just that, a general wetness like the casting was weeping rather loads of oil or a flow.

Hopefully you won't have any further problems, if you do, something to check; my neighbour had a Vauxhall with similar problems, oil was coming through the gearbox oil seal but not because it was worn, the engine and gearbox were out of alignment, compressing the seal unevenly. After I can't remember how many repairs over a couple of years the manufacturer (even though there was no admission of fault) replaced the car.

Quote from Missing Lincs

:my neighbour had a Vauxhall with similar problems, oil was coming through the gearbox oil seal but not because it was worn, the engine and gearbox were out of alignment, compressing the seal unevenly. After I can't remember how many repairs over a couple of years the manufacturer (even though there was no admission of fault) replaced the car.

This is very interesting I read something recently of a similar nature but I can't remember from where ( I looked at so much stuff recently in relation to this problem and the little grey cells aren't what they were). If this leak happens again we will certainly look at this although how you tell apart from the leak I would not know. I will keep you posted.

Many thanks for the thoughts and information

Adrian