the EML is blinking, the car is stuttering then gone into limp mode

Questions specifically about a Petrol powered Citroen C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems).
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My Name: ADuffin94

Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:46 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: I dont know
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 116000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)

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I have a 2005 C3 desire and after hitting a rabbit a week ago the engine management light came on, thought nothing of it as it is often on with no issue. However now the EML is blinking then the car is stuttering then going into limp mode if I have to stop for extended periods at traffic lights or roundabouts, quickly turning the ignition off then on again seems to fix the issue for long enough to get me where I need to be.

Unfortunately as it is my only mode of transport to get to and from work I can't afford to have it off the road for an extended period so any help for possible fixes and checks I could perform at home would be very helpful.

Thanks
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2634
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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ADuffin94 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:05 am I have a 2005 C3 desire and after hitting a rabbit a week ago the engine management light came on, thought nothing of it as it is often on with no issue. However now the EML is blinking then the car is stuttering then going into limp mode if I have to stop for extended periods at traffic lights or roundabouts, quickly turning the ignition off then on again seems to fix the issue for long enough to get me where I need to be.

Unfortunately as it is my only mode of transport to get to and from work I can't afford to have it off the road for an extended period so any help for possible fixes and checks I could perform at home would be very helpful.

Thanks


Hello

Firstly, if you have an engine fault (MIL) you really need to identify which engine you have and fill in the car bio correctly.

Post the VIN if you really don't know.


Secondly with a MIL, get one of these from Amazon.

use it to read the codes, note them down

then clear the codes and drive it again

read the new codes and post them on this topic as a reply.

Those two pieces of information can help other help you.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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ADuffin94 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:05 am I have a 2005 C3 desire and after hitting a rabbit a week ago the engine management light came on, thought nothing of it as it is often on with no issue. However now the EML is blinking then the car is stuttering then going into limp mode
Where did the rabbit hit the car? Did it go under the car? Wheels? Bounce around the engine compartment?
Could be a lot of things but my best guess is the downstream O2 sensor. Its very low under the car and exposed. HOWEVER, while it will cause the engine light to come on, it doesn't play a big part in running the engine and shouldn't cause the engine to fail. Also it wont cause the engine light to blink.
A blinking engine light is typically associated with imminent damage to the catalytic converter, usually a fueling problem, like an overly rich mixture.
I'm sorry but I'm just guessing.
I would suggest poking your head in the engine compartment and have a look for damaged wiring or dislocated plugs. Look under the engine too.
Sorry, there is no logical spot I could suggest you look. All of the important wiring runs along the back and top of the engine (most engine types). I don't know how the rabbit would get flung up there but sh happens.
If you can, remove the spark plugs and inspect them. They should all be similar in appearance. Dry and slightly sooty. Not "wet" or smell of petrol. Approximate gap between the electrodes of 1mm.
The other thing is co-incidence! Your problem might not have anything to do with the rabbit. It's possible the coil pack is breaking down. Again, just guessing.
If you can identify a problem we might be able to tell you what it is and how to fix it.
As C3CAR says, try and get a scanner or have the car scanned to see what it says.
My Name: ADuffin94

Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:46 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: I dont know
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 116000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)

Post

Okay I've got my code reader out, couldn't yesterday as I was at work all day and the codes listed are:
P1336
P0170 p
P1336 p
P0304 p
Not sure if the p on the end is relevant or a strange quirk of the reader I have.

Still have no idea of the engine size but the VIN is:
VF7FCHFXB 27293145

I have tried to remove and cleck spark plugs visually and with my trusty multimeter but sadly the garage who did my MOT back in Feb have done the coil pack up tight and I can't remove the bolts holding it in.

Hopefully this helps get a bit more info.
My Name: ADuffin94

Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:46 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: I dont know
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 116000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)

Post

Ozvtr wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:49 am
ADuffin94 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:05 am I have a 2005 C3 desire and after hitting a rabbit a week ago the engine management light came on, thought nothing of it as it is often on with no issue. However now the EML is blinking then the car is stuttering then going into limp mode
Where did the rabbit hit the car? Did it go under the car? Wheels? Bounce around the engine compartment?
Could be a lot of things but my best guess is the downstream O2 sensor. Its very low under the car and exposed. HOWEVER, while it will cause the engine light to come on, it doesn't play a big part in running the engine and shouldn't cause the engine to fail. Also it wont cause the engine light to blink.
A blinking engine light is typically associated with imminent damage to the catalytic converter, usually a fueling problem, like an overly rich mixture.
I'm sorry but I'm just guessing.
I would suggest poking your head in the engine compartment and have a look for damaged wiring or dislocated plugs. Look under the engine too.
Sorry, there is no logical spot I could suggest you look. All of the important wiring runs along the back and top of the engine (most engine types). I don't know how the rabbit would get flung up there but sh happens.
If you can, remove the spark plugs and inspect them. They should all be similar in appearance. Dry and slightly sooty. Not "wet" or smell of petrol. Approximate gap between the electrodes of 1mm.
The other thing is co-incidence! Your problem might not have anything to do with the rabbit. It's possible the coil pack is breaking down. Again, just guessing.
If you can identify a problem we might be able to tell you what it is and how to fix it.
As C3CAR says, try and get a scanner or have the car scanned to see what it says.
I have tried to check my spark plugs this morning since even to me that's a logical step but sadly the coil pack is bolted on too tightly for me to get off. The poor rabbit hit towards the left side on the front, I don't think it did any bouncing around as I only had the one clunk on impact. I'm thinking I might have to pop it along to a garage that my partner's mum suggested tomorrow when it's back open as apparently he is friendly and nice and cheap!
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My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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ADuffin94 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:05 am Okay I've got my code reader out, couldn't yesterday as I was at work all day and the codes listed are:
P1336
P0170 p
P1336 p
P0304 p
Not sure if the p on the end is relevant or a strange quirk of the reader I have.
p is going to be 'permanent' - a code that is present when the codes are read.

without a trailing p, it will be a temporary code that has been recorded historically but not present at read time.

the way to deal with these temporary faults is to delete/clear them and then run the engine again.

re-read the codes and get the latest ones that are relevant to the latest engine run.

P1336 - Ignition System Misfire Detected/Cam Crank sensor
P0170 - fuel trim
P0304 - Cyl 4 Misfire Detected



Still have no idea of the engine size but the VIN is:
VF7FCHFXB 27293145
It is a 1.1 i (TU1JP) engine.

You can update the car bio by following the link in my signature :)
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: ADuffin94

Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:46 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: I dont know
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 116000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)

Post

Arfur Dent wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:15 pm
ADuffin94 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:05 am Okay I've got my code reader out, couldn't yesterday as I was at work all day and the codes listed are:
P1336
P0170 p
P1336 p
P0304 p
Not sure if the p on the end is relevant or a strange quirk of the reader I have.
p is going to be 'permanent' - a code that is present when the codes are read.

without a trailing p, it will be a temporary code that has been recorded historically but not present at read time.

the way to deal with these temporary faults is to delete/clear them and then run the engine again.

re-read the codes and get the latest ones that are relevant to the latest engine run.

Still have no idea of the engine size but the VIN is:
VF7FCHFXB 27293145
It is a 1.1 i (TU1JP) engine.

You can update the car bio by following the link in my signature :)
Thanks for the engine info!!
Also I did clear them this morning, drive to the next village and back then re-read them and those were the codes it gave on the re-read
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 271 times
Been thanked: 114 times

Post

P1336 - Ignition System Misfire Detected/Cam Crank sensor
P0170 - fuel trim
P0304 - Cyl 4 Misfire Detected
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Post

Ok.

Engine light will be blinking because of P0170. My guess will be a rich mixture or high fuel trim. Those two things are not the same by the way.

P1336 not sure about this one. Depends on whether you have 1 or 2 faults here. The crank angle sensor for a manual gearbox is on top of the gearbox and is black with a black 3 pin connector. Remove the air cleaner box and check security of the connector. There is no way to test the sensor, in this case, as the problem is intermittent. If there is only 1 problem then it wont be the sensor and the fault is a red hearing. Sensor faults would tend to be more random. This one is picking on cylinder 4.

P0304 Cylinder #4 is VERY specific! The coil packs fire two cylinders at a time. A failure of the coil pack typically involves two cylinders, not one. Doesn't look like coil pack.

So, number 4 injector or spark plug? Number 4 is closest to the accessory drive belt, furthest from the gearbox.

You really need to get a look at that spark plug.

If spark plug looks OK, swap it with another 'plug and see if fault moves. If plug fowled clean it. Then move it.
If fault stays at #4 its the injector. If fault moves, it's the plug (duh!). If it goes away because of cleaning the plug, check the other plugs.
If it looks like it's the injector, swap that too and see if fault moves, to confirm the fault.
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