STOP warning with fan running.

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My Name: Brutusgold78

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Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
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Hi, I’ve a C3 1.6 petrol 2011 automatic, recently the fan has been coming on a lot and we’ve had the STOP warning.

Taken it into a garage and they’re thinking it is the oil sensor - car is running fine and temp is normal, but the reading from the oil sensor is zero apparently so they’re thinking that’s the issue.

Any thoughts on this, part is £100 and 5 hours labour to fit apparently so keen to know it sounds like the cause before we go ahead

Thanks for the help!
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
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Can you tell us the 5th 6th and 7th letters in your VIN.
This will tell us what engine you have.
My Name: Brutusgold78

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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 10000
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Gearbox: Automatic PRND
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Characters are C5F
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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C5F doesn't sound familiar but I would say you have the EP6 engine.

I'm not that familiar with the EP6 engine however the oil level sensor is not very reliable at the best of times. In previous models "low oil" did not cause an alarm. Low oil pressure causes an alarm. They are two different sensors. At 100 quid I would assume they are talking about the oil level sensor (the oil pressure sensor is just a pressure switch and not that expensive) but I cant see how it would take 5 hours to replace it, but again I'm not familiar with the ET6 engine.
I do not believe the oil sensor and the fan "problem" are related.
You are not clear as to when the "stop" warning comes on. With the oil or with the fan? If it's the oil pressure sensor you MUST get that addressed! You MUST establish if it's just a faulty sensor or if there is an actual loss of oil pressure! If you are ACTUALLY loosing oil pressure, that could cause a catastrophic failure of the engine!
If it's the oil level sensor, you can live with out that, er...maybe. This engine was co-produced with BMW, so does it have a dip stick?

The fan should come on under 2 circumstances. 1) when the air conditioning is being used. 2) When the engine coolant outlet temperature gets to about 100 degrees. The fan should cut out when the outlet temp gets below 90 degrees. If the system is running correctly, the temperature gauge will sit about the 1/2 way mark and wont move, whether the fan is running or not.
Generally speaking the fan doesn't run much at all. Idling and stop start traffic are usually the only times you may here the fan running.

If the fan comes on at random times it might be a faulty relay or fan controller. Some of the older cars had a continuously variable electronic fan controller built into the fan motor. They tended to fail in random ways. On all the time or fail to run at all or run at full speed at random times.
I do not know what system your car is running so I could only guess.
My Name: Brutusgold78

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Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 10000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
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Thanks again for the help! I'll try to give a little more detail as best i can :)

The STOP message came with a message along the lines of 'engine fault, temperature too high' not exact wording and annoyingly it's not showing this morning (think the garage has reset it) no actual message of Oil in the error message, you are correct though, it's the BMW engine with a dipstick, oil levels are fine and not losing any as far as can tell

Engine is running fine, driving well, running at about 110 apparently (based on what the garage says) but no temp gauge on the dash sadly.

Garage ran diagnostics, and it came back saying oil level was zero - which he is attributing the fan / STOP warning too - suggesting it takes upto 5 hours as the top half of the engine will have to come out in order to replace it - i'm clueless on this so couldn't tell you if that was about right / complete bs

The fan is coming on within the first couple of minutes of driving, and stays on constantly, remaining on for several minutes after the engine is switched off, have tried this with / without the blower & AC on, happens regardless

Only other issue we've had recently is on starting, it would lose revs immediately and cut, needing to be rev'd hard for 20 seconds before it would run, i've ran some injector cleaner through the petrol tank which seems to have improved that, although it did struggle this morning after sitting stationary for 4 days
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Brutusgold78 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:46 am Thanks again for the help! I'll try to give a little more detail as best i can :)

The STOP message came with a message along the lines of 'engine fault, temperature too high' not exact wording and annoyingly it's not showing this morning (think the garage has reset it) no actual message of Oil in the error message, you are correct though, it's the BMW engine with a dipstick, oil levels are fine and not losing any as far as can tell

Engine is running fine, driving well, running at about 110 apparently (based on what the garage says) but no temp gauge on the dash sadly.

Garage ran diagnostics, and it came back saying oil level was zero - which he is attributing the fan / STOP warning too - suggesting it takes upto 5 hours as the top half of the engine will have to come out in order to replace it - i'm clueless on this so couldn't tell you if that was about right / complete bs

The fan is coming on within the first couple of minutes of driving, and stays on constantly, remaining on for several minutes after the engine is switched off, have tried this with / without the blower & AC on, happens regardless

Only other issue we've had recently is on starting, it would lose revs immediately and cut, needing to be rev'd hard for 20 seconds before it would run, i've ran some injector cleaner through the petrol tank which seems to have improved that, although it did struggle this morning after sitting stationary for 4 days
Ah! OK.

110 degrees, I believe is too high a "running" temperature. As I said it should be around 90. BUT, I think your cooling system is OK.
I believe your coolant temperature probe is faulty.
It ticks most of the boxes.
When the engine is cold and needs more fuel to run, the faulty temperature probe is telling the engine management unit that the engine is already hot (warm?). Thus making it harder to start because it's not getting the extra fuel it needs.
Because the probe is telling the engine ECU the coolant is hot, the engine ECU runs the fan to cool the radiator. So the fan runs all the time.
Because the probe is telling the engine ECU the coolant is hot, you get an over temp warning on your display.
I don't think it's the cooling system because, as you said, the fan comes on in a couple of minutes. It's unlikely the engine would over heat in that short a period. Possible, but there are a couple of mitigating factors.
It's possible that there is a blockage in the cooling system, like a stuck thermostat or a bad radiator. And that something else is causing the hard starting when the engine is cold.
But you don't start fault finding by replacing the most expensive and/or hardest thing to replace first. You start with the easiest and cheapest parts first. The temperature probe is cheap and easy to replace.
Looks like the probe has a black connector and sits on a housing that the "top" radiator hose fits onto. You should be able to see it. Cost would be about 20 pound (I guess) and about 10 minutes to change (at the most, it's held in with a clip). Although they would charge 1 hour minimum. Looks like there is some stuff above it that may have to be removed but it doesn't look hard.
It's part No2
ep6.jpg
The oil level sensor has nothing to do with the "overheat" problem and as I said they are unreliable at the best of times...forget it. As far as 5 hours to replace it...nope! If you put the car up on a hoist you could gain access to it very quickly and it screws in. It's under the inlet manifold about halfway up the block.
My Name: Brutusgold78

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 10000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
Has thanked: 4 times

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You’re a legend thank you, will head back in armed with some knowledge and see where I get too - will respond back once I know more!
My Name: Brutusgold78

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:24 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 10000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
Has thanked: 4 times

Post

Just as a little extra info - managed to get the error on a little run, again came up within a few minutes. Came on then off, on then off, fan on constantly

Managed to get images this time but can’t figure out how to upload - but message on the centre console says “Stop Engine temperature fault : stop the vehicle”, and on the dashboard we just got stop, and the red temperature icon illuminated
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

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Brutusgold78 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:37 pm Just as a little extra info - managed to get the error on a little run, again came up within a few minutes. Came on then off, on then off, fan on constantly
Not sure whats going on there. It seems as if the sensor is "working" but giving an elevated reading. Unfortunately you need a scan tool on it when the engine is cold and see what it reads as it warms up. Of course "cold" should read the ambient temperature of the day. As the engine warms up the temperature should steadily climb to about 90' and only oscillate a few degrees when it gets there. If it's not reading outside temperature when cold, it's obviously faulty.
You can not discount the possibility of an actual fault in the cooling system but there are other clues that tend to point to the sensor being faulty.
You could check the coolant level. It's possible to get air pockets in the system. Item #9 in the diagram is a purge valve. If you uncap the expansion tank (the "radiator cap") and unscrew the valve, part way, you should hear air escaping or coolant bubble out. If air comes out first that's not good. Either way eventually coolant will bubble out. Caution; only do this when the coolant is cold! I don't think an air pocket is your problem but it's something to try.
Brutusgold78 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:37 pm Managed to get images this time but can’t figure out how to upload
In the "post a reply" page you will see two tabs below the dialog box. They are labeled options and attachments. Click on the attachments tab. Then click on the add files button. Navigate to the picture you want to add and single click on it, go to the bottom of the window and click the open button (or double click on the picture you want). A new box will appear in the attachments folder of your reply. That picture will now appear at the very bottom of your reply as an attachment. If you wish to place it in the body of your reply text, click the cursor to that point in your text where you want the picture to be then click "place inline". The picture will now be in the text and not at the bottom.
Brutusgold78 wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 3:37 pm message on the centre console says “Stop Engine temperature fault : stop the vehicle”, and on the dashboard we just got stop, and the red temperature icon illuminated
I personally think removing the temperature gauge from the instrument cluster is a dumb idea. I get it though, 99% of cars run fine and the temp gauge is superfluous. But then there is that one time...
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