Replace 1.4 8v engine with 1.6 16v?

Questions specifically about a Petrol powered Citroen C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems).
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My Name: ECC3

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Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 91000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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Hi,

I think my '03 8v 1.4 SX C3's engine has head gasket issues - losing water, poor fuel consumption (34mpg ave driving out of town like a granny), lumpy idle, lack of power (can't pull 5th at less than 60 up a gentle incline with just me in it).

So, I'm looking at swapping out the engine. I can source a low mileage 1.4 locally, but I'm thinking it might be good to swap it out for a 1.6 16v while I'm there. I'm ancient, so insurance isn't a problem. Being new to Citroens, I just wondered if this is something people do. I'm aware I might have to swap the ECU - I think the 1.6 16vs use a different model. I'm also aware that if I swap the ECU I'll probably need to swap the locks and the keys etc.

Could anyone give me some lowdown on it please? I don't mind doing the swap having done plenty of this kind of stuff on other things in the past. I'm also aware it'd potentially be simpler just to get a 1.6 16v instead, however that's not an option for various reasons, plus sadly if I did change it I'd not replace it with another C3 (we have yet to fully bond).

Views much appreciated please and thank you!
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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ECC3 wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm Being new to Citroens, I just wondered if this is something people do. I'm aware I might have to swap the ECU - I think the 1.6 16vs use a different model. I'm also aware that if I swap the ECU I'll probably need to swap the locks and the keys etc.
Hi ECC3 , you need to swap the engine wiring loom, the engine ECU with its matched BSI and the keys. You will then have to program the BSI from the donor with all the information from the old one (ABS info etc), use lexia tool to do this. The mileage is a different problem and you may also need the speedo from the donor.

With all that, I don't think it is going to be worth the hassle when you could fix yours and trade it in for the model you want.
My Name: ECC3

Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 91000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

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Thanks C3CAR. Much appreciated. It does sound like more hassle than I'm looking for! Perhaps a good replacement 1.4 8v is the way to go after all...
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My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 220 times
Been thanked: 109 times

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ECC3 wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm Hi,

I think my '03 8v 1.4 SX C3's engine has head gasket issues -
ECC3 wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:04 pm Thanks C3CAR. Much appreciated. It does sound like more hassle than I'm looking for! Perhaps a good replacement 1.4 8v is the way to go after all...
Or investigate if the head gasket has failed and just replace that? It is quite common for the head gaskets to fail, particularly with the wrong coolant type. There are cheap Head gasket testing kits available here that look for combustion gasses in the coolant.
My Name: ECC3

Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 91000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Thanks again C3CAR,

It makes sense to confirm that the head gasket really is away, doesn't it? I didn't know you got testing kits like those, so thanks for that link. One is now ordered up. I'd been trying to find a way of carrying out the bubbling-coolant-in-the-radiator-while-the-engine's-running test but was yet to find a way to do that when there isn't a cap on said radiator. I don't think looking in the expansion bottle's going be any use.

As to changing the head gasket, do you not need to strip the engine to degunk the waterways & replace the shells etc as well? I thought water in the oil spelled the end for big ends & shells? I'd assumed I'd need to do all that stuff and so had been ruling it out, not least as whatever I do needs to be doable in a weekend.

However, if you don't need to strip the engine down and replace shells etc that potentially changes things. There's a good chance I'm out of date on what's needed to sort out a blown head gasket!

Thanks!
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My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2815
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 220 times
Been thanked: 109 times

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ECC3 wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm As to changing the head gasket, do you not need to strip the engine to degunk the waterways & replace the shells etc as well?
No, not usually.

Just head off, clean the mating surfaces, new gasket, reassemble and refill coolant. (well, that is the main nuts and bolts of it).

The waterways are probably not gunked as the water just gets into the combustion chamber, not the crank.

Obviously if you spot anything like a burned valve, then address this while the head is off.
ECC3 wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm I thought water in the oil spelled the end for big ends & shells?
You probably don't have water in the bottom end. You can drain the oil to check, that would be easy if you were concerned and fresh oil never hurt a engine.
ECC3 wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm I'd assumed I'd need to do all that stuff and so had been ruling it out, not least as whatever I do needs to be doable in a weekend.
If you don't find any problem like a cracked head, burnt valves, scored bores etc, then you can get this done in the weekend assuming you have the gaskets to hand.

There is the ever helpful Euro Car Parts website (here) that will take a reg and help identify the correct head gasket set.
ECC3 wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm There's a good chance I'm out of date on what's needed to sort out a blown head gasket!
I think you will get up-to-date over the weekend :D It could well be less work than you imagine


This topic has information on how to refill the C3 cooling system properly.


A failed head gasket from a Citroen C3 (just because..)
Citroen C3 failed head gasket
Citroen C3 failed head gasket
My Name: ECC3

Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 91000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Brilliant - thank you! :D

I'll do the test once that testing kit's here, then will look to give changing the head gasket a go if it is indeed away.

Superb forum - thanks! C3 ownership's looking brighter... :D
My Name: ECC3

Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 91000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Hi all,

The testing kit arrived today. Just run things up just now and - alas - yellow! :shock: :cry: (= combustion mixture in coolant = head gasket away)
I have some garage time ahead!

Cheers again for input on this - I had no idea such kits existed!
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