not starting without opening and closing door

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My Name: frankoprifti

Contributor
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: BiFuel (LPG-Petrol)
Mileage: 125000
Trim Level: NA
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)
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I have a >> citroen c3 2003 1.1 petrol and have noticed a strange problem with my car.
Sometimes for example while waiting inside a car for a while the car wont start with the first try. It cranks but it doesnt start. Sometimes it starts after the first try but rarely it doesn't start if i dont open and close the door just physically open and close no lock or unlock.
I have noticed that this happens exactly after you wait to hear a relay sound in around 2 minutes. After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
I consulted with a mechanic and he told me that it might be the fuses and relay ecu under the steering wheel. Do you think that can be the problem or can it be something else?
My Name: Citroen-Driver

C3 Master
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:10 am
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 30000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: ET3 16-valve (90 PS)
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frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:25 pm I have a >> citroen c3 2003 1.1 petrol and have noticed a strange problem with my car.
Sometimes for example while waiting inside a car for a while the car wont start with the first try. It cranks but it doesnt start. Sometimes it starts after the first try but rarely it doesn't start if i dont open and close the door just physically open and close no lock or unlock.
I have noticed that this happens exactly after you wait to hear a relay sound in around 2 minutes. After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
I consulted with a mechanic and he told me that it might be the fuses and relay ecu under the steering wheel. Do you think that can be the problem or can it be something else?
Hi

The part your mechanic refers to is the BSI module (information here). It is the main Body Control of the car and deals with the door opening signals and the power down after a pre-determined time for 'eco mode'.

It could very easily be the BSI causing your problems.

But the BSI is coded to the car and I don't imagine any work on the BSI would be financially viable on such an old C3.

To do any level of diagnostics to test your mechanics theory is available with a lexia clone tool (information here).
My Name: frankoprifti

Contributor
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: BiFuel (LPG-Petrol)
Mileage: 125000
Trim Level: NA
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Hi

The part your mechanic refers to is the BSI module (information here). It is the main Body Control of the car and deals with the door opening signals and the power down after a pre-determined time for 'eco mode'.

It could very easily be the BSI causing your problems.

But the BSI is coded to the car and I don't imagine any work on the BSI would be financially viable on such an old C3.

To do any level of diagnostics to test your mechanics theory is available with a lexia clone tool (information here).
If I find a replacement in another old car shouldn't it work? We live in a country that this car its not that old 😅 and there are a lot of cars here like this so I can find another one in a scrapyard.
My Name: Citroen-Driver

C3 Master
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:10 am
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 30000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: ET3 16-valve (90 PS)
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 38 times

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frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:49 pm I find a replacement in another old car shouldn't it work?
No, it won't.

The BSI is coded to the Engine ECU and the KEY.

If you change one, you need to change all 3 at the same time from the same donor. You can often find this as a ECU BSI KEY kit (here). But match the engine ECU to your existing engine ECU.

Then you need to use the lexia tool to reconfigure the BSI to match your existing specifications (that you wrote down/saved before removing the old one).

frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:49 pm there are a lot of cars here like this so I can find another one in a scrapyard
You need the KIT of the parts I mentioned above, otherwise it won't unlock remotely, start the engine or operate the A/C, display, speedo etc.

Also the miles of odometer will reset to the higher of the donor or original BSI.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 936
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:25 pm I have a >> citroen c3 2003 1.1 petrol and have noticed a strange problem with my car.
Sometimes for example while waiting inside a car for a while the car wont start with the first try. It cranks but it doesnt start. Sometimes it starts after the first try but rarely it doesn't start if i dont open and close the door just physically open and close no lock or unlock.
I have noticed that this happens exactly after you wait to hear a relay sound in around 2 minutes. After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
I consulted with a mechanic and he told me that it might be the fuses and relay ecu under the steering wheel. Do you think that can be the problem or can it be something else?
Once the ignition is turned to the 'off'/lock position, the electronics do some "house keeping" for 60 seconds and then start shutting stuff down to conserve the battery. The dash display will remain on for 10 seconds but then go out. The click you hear is the system shutting down at 60 seconds. If you open the door or turn the ignition on, this should wake the system up.

Am I right in saying that the car engine will start before you hear the relay click, but it won't start after the relay clicks?

The BSM (the fuse box in the engine bay) provides power to the engine ECU, so that cant be discounted as a potential problem either.

Frankly, replacing the BSI is not an option, as the cost is not worth the benefit. You have a work-around that seems to be working for you.
frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:25 pm After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
For the radio to be playing the ignition has to be on/accessories? Is it an aftermarket radio? With the ignition on/accessories, the system should run for 30 minutes before shutting down. With the ignition off, the system shuts down in 60 seconds but the radio should turn off when the ignition is turned off. So how is your radio running with the ignition switched off? Or are you saying something else?

So your car's system 'wakes up' when you open the doors but not if you use the ignition? There shouldn't be a difference. Hmm saying 'the system wakes up' is a bit of a misnomer. Maybe I should say the engine wakes up? The dash lights up when you turn the ignition to 'on' after the system has shut down?
Is it only the engine that doesn't start? Anything else not working?
My Name: frankoprifti

Contributor
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:36 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: BiFuel (LPG-Petrol)
Mileage: 125000
Trim Level: NA
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Ozvtr wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:15 am
frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:25 pm I have a >> citroen c3 2003 1.1 petrol and have noticed a strange problem with my car.
Sometimes for example while waiting inside a car for a while the car wont start with the first try. It cranks but it doesnt start. Sometimes it starts after the first try but rarely it doesn't start if i dont open and close the door just physically open and close no lock or unlock.
I have noticed that this happens exactly after you wait to hear a relay sound in around 2 minutes. After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
I consulted with a mechanic and he told me that it might be the fuses and relay ecu under the steering wheel. Do you think that can be the problem or can it be something else?
Once the ignition is turned to the 'off'/lock position, the electronics do some "house keeping" for 60 seconds and then start shutting stuff down to conserve the battery. The dash display will remain on for 10 seconds but then go out. The click you hear is the system shutting down at 60 seconds. If you open the door or turn the ignition on, this should wake the system up.

Am I right in saying that the car engine will start before you hear the relay click, but it won't start after the relay clicks?

The BSM (the fuse box in the engine bay) provides power to the engine ECU, so that cant be discounted as a potential problem either.

Frankly, replacing the BSI is not an option, as the cost is not worth the benefit. You have a work-around that seems to be working for you.
frankoprifti wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:25 pm After that relay sound everything inside the car turns off, like car radio for example.
For the radio to be playing the ignition has to be on/accessories? Is it an aftermarket radio? With the ignition on/accessories, the system should run for 30 minutes before shutting down. With the ignition off, the system shuts down in 60 seconds but the radio should turn off when the ignition is turned off. So how is your radio running with the ignition switched off? Or are you saying something else?

So your car's system 'wakes up' when you open the doors but not if you use the ignition? There shouldn't be a difference. Hmm saying 'the system wakes up' is a bit of a misnomer. Maybe I should say the engine wakes up? The dash lights up when you turn the ignition to 'on' after the system has shut down?
Is it only the engine that doesn't start? Anything else not working?
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