Intermittant starting problem 1.4 C3 2006

Hi, first post, my daughters 2006 1.4 C3

About a month back it started with this problem, went to start and it turned over but didn't start, key back and try again and it started as usual

This has happened on a more regular basis ever since, but each time it starts second time

On some occasions after the first failed start, the clock resets to zero, but not every time

I have checked, cleaned and tightened the battery terminals

From a google it was suggested the engine earth strap could do with checking for a clean contact, I looked but can't see it, where is the strap? (only looked from the top so far)

Anyone any idea what the problem may be?

And where is that earth strap?

Any help or advice appreciated

Hi Old Fogey

Old Fogey wrote:From a google it was suggested the engine earth strap could do with checking for a clean contact, I looked but can't see it, where is the strap?

Earth points on a Citroen C3

The arrow shows one of the front earth points that is only just in shot.

Old Fogey wrote:This has happened on a more regular basis ever since, but each time it starts second time

That is interesting and must mean something to someone. Bad starters are often bad starter motor and solenoids after the battery has been checked to be ok.

Old Fogey wrote:And where is that earth strap?

To be sure, follow the wire from the battery and find where it meets the body.

Thanks for the reply

I will need to look under the bonnet again tomorrow re earth, to be clear though its not the earth from the battery, but rather engine or gearbox to chassis I am looking for, usually obvious on most cars but this ones hiding

I will have another look tomorrow

Much appreciated

Old Fogey wrote:Thanks for the reply

I will need to look under the bonnet again tomorrow re earth, to be clear though its not the earth from the battery, but rather engine or gearbox to chassis I am looking for, usually obvious on most cars but this ones hiding

I will have another look tomorrow

Much appreciated

No problem,

You will need to remove the air filter box and some of the plastic pipes to get a better view of the gearbox end, but its not too difficult.

Many thanks will check later

Hi Old Fogey

Just a little tip for checking connections, sorry if you know already.

Problems with connections occur when there is corrosion between the conductive surfaces. Outwardly an earth point can look fine, it will probably also show no signs of being loose. It is sometimes possible to measure the electrical resistance, however on large connections like earthing points/straps the difference between good and bad is fractions of an ohm which is difficult to measure.

The only reliable way to check them is to take the connection apart, inspect the surfaces within the connection and then clean if required and re-assemble. A light coating of grease (petroleum jelly is good for this) will help protect the connection in the future.

The above also applies to battery terminals, don't rely on the outside appearance, check the contact surfaces.

With smaller connectors eg blade terminals, electrical contact cleaner can help as can just breaking and making the connector. If a connector is badly corroded and can't be thoroughly cleaned, replacement is often the only solution. If the damage is confined to the connector it may be possible to replace just the connector. Sometimes corrosion extends into the wiring in which case cut back to good wire and splice in a new piece.

When repairing or adding new wiring, don't be tempted to use 'Skotchlok' type connectors other than inside the car. Either solder and use heat-shrink insulation (waterproof which is glue lined is the best) or use a crimp terminal, again these are available with glue lined heat-shrink insulation which makes the joint waterproof.

Thank you for the additional advice, all good advice but been there and have several of those T shirts but thank you for it, its something easily missed

Personally I think the poor connection is a red herring on this occasion but wanted to follow it through just in case, due to work and weather I haven't yet managed to check the earth strap but had removed, cleaned the battery terminals and clamps with abrasive and vaselined them

I may need to repost as I think there may be another cause than a poor earth

As I said the problem started about a month ago

On some occasions on first key it turns over but doesn't start, but on second attempt it started and ran fine with no other obvious problem, except it resets the clock on some but not all occasions

Yesterday it did the same but took four attempts to start, on the first there was a beep and the clock reset itself, after the fourth attempt it started and ran

Whether this is a gradual degradation or just coincidence, I don't know

Sadly good auto electricians are thin on the ground down here in Cornwall

If you're confident it's not a bad connection then my next move would be to monitor the battery voltage when starting.

I think there is a clue in the clock resetting. The only reason I can think of for this is because the permanent battery supply voltage to the clock drops below the level required to keep the clock going.

Such a severe battery voltage drop would occur:-

a) Bad connection - which you don't think it is. Also to affect the clock it would have to be on the battery wiring.

b) Excessive loading - which could be a starter motor fault.

c) A faulty battery.

If you have an analogue meter I would suggest that would be the most revealing although a digital meter will suffice. What does the voltage do when you try to start and it fails and also when you try to start and succeed?

Apologies for the late reply I meant to follow this up earlier than this

At the time of the last post suggesting checking the battery I only had an old analogue meter, so bought a digital one, testing with that it gave a slightly low reading after drawing off the surface voltage, 11.9 on one occasion and 12.2 on another, on starting it jumped up to 14.+ so alternator definitely working

So purchased a new battery, fitted and starting problems gone, seems the battery (which was a 2007 Citroen OE battery) was on its way out, I only found the date and part sticker on the side of the battery after removing it from the car, daft place to put it IMHO

Anyway, resolved that problem, only to now have another problem re coolant loss on which I will place a new post

Thanks for all the input much appreciated

Old Fogey wrote:Anyway, resolved that problem, only to now have another problem re coolant loss on which I will place a new post

Thanks for all the input much appreciated

Thanks for the update. Great you got it sorted

Missing Lincs wrote:c) A faulty battery.

Well done Missing Lincs