Cold & Damp Starting Badly

Hi. New member and new Citroen owner.

My C3 is showing a cold/damp start problem. I've only recently bought it, and its been largely cold/damp here in cumbria, so I don't have much to go on.

Basically, the starter motor turns over fine, the engine fires up on cue, but then it makes a few rasping, coughing sounds, splutters and hunts for revs a little bit. This lasts between 20sec - 1min, then it runs nice and quiet. It does it hardly at all on dry clear days (such as we've had), and it doesn't do it at all if I restart after parking up for just an hour or so. Hence my dampness theory.

I sealed the washer jets (as per comments elsewhere on this forum) but I didn't see any sign of leaking anyway. The engine management light has never come on, though it lights up for ignition tests. The engine warms up nice and quickly, the mpg seems ok, and the oil / coolant levels are steady as you like.

Would a cheap OBD2 reader pick up any faults if the engine management light hasn't come on, or is this a job for Lexia-type kit?

Also, I've noticed that the electronic throttle seems to respond to the clutch peddle - the idle picking up when the clutch is depressed, and dropping again when released out of gear (e.g. when parking). Is this normal?

Hi C3Safari

C3Safari wrote:I sealed the washer jets (as per comments elsewhere on this forum) but I didn't see any sign of leaking anyway.

That's good as leaking washer jets damage the injector.

C3Safari wrote:Would a cheap OBD2 reader pick up any faults if the engine management light hasn't come on

Yes, engine codes are stored and can be read with a cheap OBD reader from ebay.

C3Safari wrote:My C3 is showing a cold/damp start problem.

I would go straight for a HT electrical problem and do the whole lot - plugs and coils. The coil pack would give this sort of problem as it starts to break down and will only get worse over time.

Have a look here on Euro Car Parts for the parts by selecting by registration number and use the discount code 'C3OWNER' for a discount at the checkout.

Hello C3Safari

I've also seen similar symptoms to yours with a worn or dirty throttle module. Might also be worth giving the throttle a good clean and another reason to have a look for engine error codes. If the tracks on the feedback potentiometers are worn you will nearly always get an error code because of different signals from the two circuits.

If you hold the throttle pedal down slightly when you start or just after do you still get the problem?

Thanks for the tips. Plugs and coils sounds worthwhile in any case. However, prices for coil packs do vary wildly, particularly on Micks Garage (£100+ in some cases). Is a £38 Haas Coil penny pinching too far? I'm working on the assumption that the one on the car is original, and any replacement is likely to be an improvement?

I'll run a code reader past it before messing with the throttle. They aren't cheap parts, and Haynes says theres some pretty clever stuff going on. When you say 'a good cleaning' are we talking about going over it with a bit of carb cleaner? The unit itself doesn't look easily servicable, at least compared to the manual throttle on my previous car.

I'll try starting with the peddle tomorrow.

I ordered a Autophix OM123 reader. It seems to connect ok, but I'm getting no data. On start-up (plug in adaptor, turn on ignition) it scans and displays SAE J1850 PWM, followed by ISO 9141-2. Then it displays a status page:
MIL : Off
Monitors Found : 6
Monitors N/A : 5 (or sometimes 0)
Monitors INC : 0

Under 'Vehicle Info' it displays 'protocol > KWP2000'

Under 'Trouble Codes > Stored Codes & Pending Codes' it just says 'no codes stored in module' and something similar for view freeze frame data. For 'Live Data' and 'I/M Readiness' it says not supported.

Is it necessary to have the engine running to use these readers? The manual says not.

The latter subject, revs in tune with clutch. This can signify end play in the crankshaft, was a feature of my past Vauxhalls. Seemed to be harmless.
I also have had poor cold running on my C3, seems to have been a partial blockage in the exhaust as a replacement has solved the problem.

C3Safari wrote:I ordered a Autophix OM123 reader. It seems to connect ok, but I'm getting no data. On start-up (plug in adaptor, turn on ignition) it scans and displays SAE J1850 PWM, followed by ISO 9141-2. Then it displays a status page:
MIL : Off
Monitors Found : 6
Monitors N/A : 5 (or sometimes 0)
Monitors INC : 0

Under 'Vehicle Info' it displays 'protocol > KWP2000'

Under 'Trouble Codes > Stored Codes & Pending Codes' it just says 'no codes stored in module' and something similar for view freeze frame data. For 'Live Data' and 'I/M Readiness' it says not supported.

Is it necessary to have the engine running to use these readers? The manual says not.

No, not needed to run the engine to get the codes, just have the ignition on to power up the ECUs

SAE J1850 PWM, followed by ISO 9141-2

These are standards used to talk to the car.

KWP2000'

This is the engine ECU communication protocol

MIL : Off

Engine check light on the dashboard is not illuminated.

Monitors Found : 6

This sounds like 6 different variables it can detect.

Stored Codes & Pending Codes' it just says 'no codes stored in module'

No codes stored in the parts of the car that are accessible to the reader.
The reader accesses engine codes, so no engine codes found.

view freeze frame data. For 'Live Data' and 'I/M Readiness' it says not supported.

Live data is a time when you would run the engine and the reader can capture data 'on the fly' and plot a graph of whatever you have selected and that it can access.

I/M Readyness is Inspection & Maintenance monitors, a US standard and not supported by all cars. I don't know if your C3 should be I/M ready?

Freeze Frame is a record of various system (engine) states that are also captured when a code is captured.
This can be useful as it gives more information about what the engine was doing when the code was generated and stored.

Said before, i had poor starting plus a tendancy to cut out if i stopped within a quarter mile. Restarting sounded like fuel starvation, but once running no problems. Did i dash out and by a Lexia, no i took the fuel filler cap off and back on, problem solved for about three days, and so on. As i said before a new silencer cured the problem. All good fun but i try all avenues before getting involved in codes etc.

These are standards used to talk to the car.

I did wonder whether the car isn't actually OBD2 compliant and the reader was mistakenly thinking it was. The socket on my car is identical to the one posted by philtops in this thread, although in my case the plug does fit:
citroen-c3-tips/lexia-and-obd-diagnosti ... -t655.html
Assuming the socket is upside down, the pins on mine are nos. 1,2,4,5,7,11,12,16. It doesn't have either pin 10 or 15. The fact that it doesn't display any information under 'vehicle info' seemed odd. Or, it might work fine and just have no codes it can pick up.

a new silencer cured the problem.

The exhaust does rattle a little bit, so maybe I'll look at that once I've changed the ignition coils.

C3Safari wrote:I did wonder whether the car isn't actually OBD2 compliant and the reader was mistakenly thinking it was.

All the C3 (and C3 Pluriel) models that run on petrol and are UK spec are OBD2 compliant, but you do get much more information from using a lexia tool on it. For diesels before somewhere around 2004ish they are not OBD2 compliant and lexia is the best way to connect.

C3Safari wrote:Or, it might work fine and just have no codes it can pick up.

No codes, and a good connections, maybe there are no codes, so as alsie2 may do is check things and not rely on code

C3Safari wrote:so maybe I'll look at that once I've changed the ignition coils.

There was mention in other parts of the site that for coil packs, use only OEM or top brand parts as they can give problems.