Check Engine, P3013, P3014 ?

So my 2005 C3 Pluiel 1.6l 16v, is a restoration project. Fair number of problem when I bought it, but gradually working though them. Recently dealing with my first check engine light, my code reader show P3013 and P3014, which j gather relates to Throttle relearn. Yes I cleaned the throttle body and the throttle position sensor. I had reset the ECU, I thought, by scrubbing the sides with my ODB2 scanner, and removing power and touching positive to negative leads for 20 minutes (off the battery of course). On repower and start up, the darn sides popped up again. Scanner cannot clear them. The car drive fine, Sensodrive is fine, idle is 800 rpm, good throttle response. To me it seems fine, except these two codes and the check light are hanging around. Any suggestions for clearing this up?

Hi

Codes can clear themselves after a number of engine runs with no fault present. MIL will go out.

Drive it for a few days and see how it goes

"Throttle coherence" problems will typically cause the engine to go into limp mode for safety reasons. So if the engine runs fine, I don't think that's what the code(s) are pointing to. However (grasping at straws) you could try reprogramming the throttle peddle and the motorized throttle.

Motorised throttle housing programming procedure
• switch on the ignition,
• leave the ignition on for at least 10 seconds (do not switch off the ignition
during these 10 seconds and do not press the accelerator pedal),
• switch off the ignition and leave it off for 15 seconds (the ECU records the
motorised throttle programming parameters in the EEPROM - this is the
POWER LATCH phase),

Pedal position sensor programming procedure
• accelerator pedal at rest,
• switch on the ignition,
• press the accelerator pedal down fully,
• release the accelerator pedal,
• start the engine without accelerating (don't push the accelerator peddle down).


You can try looking at the long term and short term fuel trims. A too rich mixture condition can damage the catalytic converter. A too lean condition can trip a downstream O2 sensor code. Anything under +/- 5% is good.
You could look at the O2 sensor output. The upstream sensor should swing backwards and forwards between (about) 0.1 and 0.9 of a volt. The downstream sensor should sit stable at about 0.5 of a volt. Not too stable! If its rock steady the downstream sensor is buggered.
Without the engine running, and the engine cold. The inlet pressure should be about 1000Kpa. Inlet temp should be ambient.
Engine coolant temp should also be ambient.

As C3car said, if the engine runs OK and there really isn't any problems, the faults might clear by themselves. Faults can go from "permanent" to "temporary" to no fault.

Thanks for the suggestions, I tried them. No change, still P3013 and P3014.
The strange part is the car was running fine, then suddenly this popped up. So i decided to purchase a used throttle body (which came with a six month warranty, from B-Parts in Portugal). I inspected it carefully before installing. I installed it, after clearing the codes and resetting the ECU, and after going through the relearn suggested - it produced exactly the same codes (P3013, P3014) as the original throttle body.
So the next suggestion was to change the O2 sensor (which i have not touched so far), is that a valid path?
The car drives fine, with the check engine light and these two codes. I erase the codes and they come back immeadiately. Driving it around has so far failed to auto clear the codes. So i am after new ideas. O2 sensor, is that a consensus next step?
Thanks for your help.
GD

The error codes appear to be associated with the "learning" of both the throttle peddle and motorized throttle body positions.
The engine ECU seems to be complaining that it doesn't know the full travel of both the throttle peddle and the throttle body.
Apart from the learning process mentioned above I have no idea what else to try. And, I have no idea as to why it would suddenly just pop up out of the blue! Particularly as nothing seems to be broken!

As I said, looking at the long and short term fuel trims will tell you if the engine is running properly and if there are any big problems with the engine management (as a whole). But I don't expect there to be any problems as you said the engine runs fine!

I don't recommend firing "the parts cannon" at the car "just on spec". Particularly as the car runs fine. But it's your money.

If there was a problem with the O2 sensor it would show up in the fuel trims. If the O2 sensor was out right "broken" the engine ECU would detect that and throw up a code. If the sensor was "sort of working" (but not properly) then the fuel trims would be skewed.

The only code information that I can find (and that's not much) relates to the throttle position "learning". If you are really desperate the only other logical step (that I can think of) would be to replace the throttle peddle. I cant, in all faith, recommend that as I have no hard evidence that is the problem. And...the throttle peddles are VERY reliable!! It's hard to find a problem when everything is working!

The only other thing I can suggest is to take the car to a dealer and get the code properly diagnosed. Don't get any work done, but find out what the dealer says the problem is.

Problem has been solved. It was related to the O2 sensor. I pulled the sensor and it was black and sooty, whereas I understand a good one would be a tan coloured. So obviously the ECU was running a very rich mixture, I assume. I installed a new O2 sensor, and re-ran the "learning" procedure, including throttle position range, and the check engine light vanished. It has not reappeared after several days of driving.

Thanks for the help to those that responded above.