Cam belt a tooth out?

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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
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Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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I believe you are doing every thing correctly and the problem is not in the attaching or tensioning of the belt.

The cam sprocket is easy to see and pin but are you sure the flywheel is pinned in the correct position? Is it impossible to turn the CRANK shaft over (by hand from the crankshaft sprocket) when it's pinned?

You should be an old hand at this by now and probably know more than me about the installation of the timing belt.

You have tried moving the camshaft half a tooth clockwise and half a tooth anticlockwise wise haven't you? One of those positions MUST be correct.

I made a mistake in the sequence. The tensioner should be installed without the pin in (or pin removed before belt installation) and the belt will be tightened when the tensioner cam is rotated to pin the indicator pointer. So the sequence is: tensioner over tightens belt - tensioner pinned - 4 turns - remove pin - tensioner slackened so pointer points to notch. I think you spotted my mistake in your question. HOWEVER I don't believe this makes any difference to your problem.

The correct tension of the belt only makes a difference to the lifespan of the belt not the cam timing. When I said it was critical I meant: to avoid premature failure of the belt. The fact the the indicator pointer moves around only indicates that the auto tensioning spring is working. Actually installing the belt should be the easy bit. Did the lines on the belt line up at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock? Well, as close as possible?

If the cam sprocket and crankshaft are pinned correctly I cannot see that the timing is out enough to cause this trouble. You seem to be installing and tensioning the belt correctly so I can only assume the trouble is somewhere else and is co-incidental to changing the belt.

The fact it runs better in "reverse" is just bizarre! Idles OK, lacks power on take off, cruises OK? Is it bad or just noticeable?
My Name: Charles winter

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Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
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Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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Hi, definately pinned the flywheel as when I try to move the crank the bar pin/rod moves. One of the problems with it is its only a recess so when I've pinned it I've turned the crank till it wedges the pin. After pinning the crank and cam there is still play in them with the pins in probably around 2-5mm. This might be where I've messed up the timing with the top and bottom. I haven't yet tried the moving the cam a tooth up or down yet, a little worried at present incase I really screw things up.. I will definitely give it a go soon though, yesterday I put the first new tensioner back on(yes I bought two and two belts :roll: ) as it had more tension in it but when I ran the car the belt was nearly 1 mm off the cam and I'd left it idling (it was sounding fine) for @30 mins, so when I went back to her the engine was super hot and I took the cover off and everything was so hot but the belt seemed ok, so tonight the latest tensioner is going back on.
The lines where at 6 and 12 but of course when I rotate 4x it doesn't come back to that but I could pin the engine and marks pretty much line up.
Its good to here the tension is just for the life of the belt but I'm sure I heard somewhere if its not tensioned properly the car won't run well!
Reverse is normal, I did manage to drive it the other day, just when I got to a junction it pulls away really slowly and have to rev it a lot.
I'm going to phone citroen in uckfield and see what they say and how much it would cost to do :lol:
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My Name: Charles winter

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Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:24 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Kent/East Sussex
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Just spoke to Mark on parts at citroen in uckfield, nice chap,
He told me the tensioner is very important and one has only a little margin to be correct.
My tensioner is slipping so after I've tensioned it and started her up the pointer has gone from beyond the notch to last thing yesterday evening in the middle, but thats when the belt was running on the edge of the cam.
I'll try the cam one notch back/forward and feel what thats like and let you know.
Thanks again guy...
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My Name: robc3

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Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2012 (12)
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Fuel Type: Petrol
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Trim Level: VTR+
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Helps to hold the tensioner in position with the hex key as you tighten the 13mm nut, may slip a fraction as you tighten otherwise. I've just put a replacement head on a 62' 1.4 c3 i bought with bent valves, would say you'll know pretty quick from the misfire and clanking if a valves bent from piston contact.
My Name: Charles winter

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Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
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Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
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cheers rob
dam this rain ☔️
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
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Charles winter wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:32 pm the belt was nearly 1 mm off the cam
Sorry but what do you mean by that. What cam? 1mm in what direction? Did you find out why? The retaining flange on the front of the crankshaft sprocket should keep the belt lined up on all the other sprockets. If not, WTF?
Charles winter wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:32 pm when I went back to her the engine was super hot
Did the temperature indicator on the dash go above the three bars? Edit: sorry, I see your C3 is a Mk2. Scratch that.
Charles winter wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:32 pm I'm sure I heard somewhere if its not tensioned properly the car won't run well!
If the belt slips and starts skipping teeth on the sprockets it certainly wont run well. Again, as far as I can see you are doing everything right.

You said the tensioner is slipping. Have you marked the cam in some way to see if its rotating on the stud?

I'm sorry that we aren't making any headway here. The only thing you have left is to move the belt "back the other way" half a tooth. Failing that, I have no idea. As I said, I can only assume then that it's not the belt but some thing else.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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robc3 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:44 pm I've just put a replacement head on a 62' 1.4 c3 i bought with bent valves
Hi Rob,
Did you have any trouble with setting the timing belt? Any idea why Charles is having so much trouble? Everything in his pictures look OK to me.
My Name: robc3

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Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2012 (12)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
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Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
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Ozvtr wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:48 am
robc3 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:44 pm I've just put a replacement head on a 62' 1.4 c3 i bought with bent valves
Hi Rob,
Did you have any trouble with setting the timing belt? Any idea why Charles is having so much trouble? Everything in his pictures look OK to me.
Went OK, quite liked the extra space as usually do them on bigger stuff. Maybe its the order of sprockets you're putting belt on that is causing issue?

(After Fitting) timing belt to crankshaft sprocket.
Fit timing belt in following order:
Camshaft sprocket.
Water pump sprocket.
Tensioner pulley.

I found a section of workshop manual that covers belt change on an 09' 1.1, url's below. You could do a belt deflection test just to be sure tensions correct?

quick q, any idea how long before a new member can post a question in forum?

https://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-r ... -1-1-2009/
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robc3 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:27 amquick q, any idea how long before a new member can post a question in forum?
New members are welcome to post new questions and also reply to existing topics as soon as they sign-up. Your first few posts won't appear until one of the admins has had a chance to check that the post is suitable and posted in the correct area of the forum. It's just to get new members used to the structure of the forum, if a post is made in the wrong area it's very difficult to move without upsetting search engines and the like :D
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence and pretend you never tried :lol:
My Name: Charles winter

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Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:24 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Kent/East Sussex
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Hi,
Sorry been away from Comp and car
The belt was @ 1mm off the cam sprocket towards off side, this happened before when I first installed the belt, tensioner and water pump, I left the original stud on the engine, replaced with new tensioner, put the belt on one rainy night (feels like a month ago) all seemed fine until I tried to pull away in first,
After about 5 times of messing about with belt/tensioner no.1 when I put it on the belt walked to the outer edge of the cam sprocket, nearly crapped myself when I saw it, I was well gutted, so ordered new belt and tensioner, replaced stud on engine and installed belt/tensions no.2, this stopped the belt walk, I think I over tightened the tensioner no.1.
Now last time I put the belt on I stuck the no.1 tensioner on as it felt like a stronger tensioner, and that's when it walked again, so my next mission will be to put no.2 tensioner back on and tension belt locking the nut as much as possible with common sense if I've still got any, to stop the tensioner slipping after I've set it....what do you reckon?
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