2002 1.4 LX won't turn over

Hi all, so here's another thread about a dead c3 after replacing the battery; I've read so many over the past few days.

At the weekend the wife's c3 wouldn't start; first it turned over slowly, then no more just a little chuck from the solenoid. No problem, I whipped the battery out and put it straight on a charger, back in 8 hours later and on a twist of the key ... Sod all. Everything else worked, radio, wipers, windows etc.

So I'd never read about the BSI and it's reboot precautions, until now. I've tried every 'reset procedure' variation I can find, alas no change, except I've managed to get it to sit in 'eco mode' now too. Not sure how that happened.

Replaced the battery with a new one; no difference.

I was pretty much resigned that I'd corrupted the BSI, but after trying another futile 'reset' tonight I'm not too sure; occasionally it'll make a little 'chuck' noise, like the solenoid engaging, but not reliably; usually after multiple long twist and holds of the key, if I'm lucky it'll do the chuck noise,ost of the time not.

So, given that it's impossible to say from just that description; I was wondering what people's gut feelings are? Anyone seen similar symptoms before?

What should I check next? I guess it's getting down and testing the starter with a meter, doesn't look easy to get to though.

What are the easy things to check? The no-brainer I haven't checked are the maxi fuses because they look like an arse to get to ....

facepalm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:47 pm Replaced the battery with a new one; no difference.

Hi facepalm

You either have a worn out starter motor or blown fuse F8 20A in the engine bay fuse box. (possibly you have both - they are linked.)

The engine bay fuse box diagram for the 2002-2006 C3 is here.

If you need another starter motor find the right one by reg, here.

Thanks Arfur.

I checked F8 today, it was fine but I replaced it anyway. No change.

What gets me is I'd expect some sort of consistency from the fault. The "chuck" noise I hear normally appears to happen the first couple of trie after the battery is reconnected, but not repeatedly and more often that not a turn of the key is silent. The "chuck" is definitely a mechanical noise, I expect the noise a solenoid would make but I'm no auto mechanic.

I had a hunt round for earthing straps but couldn't find any. It was too dark really. From the top of the engine bay I can just get in to check the big and small terminals on the starter, they're solid at least.

I've heard mention of checking the starter by running a cable direct, I assume something that has to be done cautiously?

facepalm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:16 pm The "chuck" is definitely a mechanical noise, I expect the noise a solenoid would make but I'm no auto mechanic.

Sounds like your starter is at the end of life.

Today I finally got round to looking at this again.

Removed the stater and it spins fine on the bench. Cleaned up all contacts and put it back in the car, and nothing. Occasionally a solenoid chuck noise, but not always.

Is it possible that either the starter or solenoid are strong enough on the bench but not in the car?

I suppose the next job is to try a new starter, but somehow I think the problem might be elsewhere.

Any ideas?

facepalm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:03 pm Removed the stater and it spins fine on the bench. Cleaned up all contacts and put it back in the car, and nothing. Occasionally a solenoid chuck noise, but not always.

Hi,

I wouldn't have gone to the bother of removing the starter from a 2002 to only clean the contacts and put it back on again.

My first choice would have been to fit a new one like this Borg and Beck one for around £60. I have a B&B on mine is behaving perfectly.

But if you wanted to be a but more sure, strip it down and look at the state of the commutator and the brushes. If the brushes were worn down they can be replaced very cheaply with this C3 starter brush set, and a clean up of the comm would have helped eek a bit more life out of it if you really didn't want a new one.

There is a Citroen C3 starter motor repair topic here

facepalm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:03 pm Is it possible that either the starter or solenoid are strong enough on the bench but not in the car?

Of course. The starter on the bench just turns thin air and doesn't need any torque at all. On the car it needs to go against the compression of the engine and needs plenty of torque to achieve this.

facepalm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:03 pm I suppose the next job is to try a new starter, but somehow I think the problem might be elsewhere.

If you had stripped the old starter down while it was on the bench you would be in a better position to say this if it looked ok inside. But if it is a starter from 2002, and without actually opening it up for inspection, I would expect it to be worn out by now if it doesn't work properly.

Thanks, you're right I should have digged a little deeper - the motor seemed quite spritely, not like the worn out (albeit smaller) motors I'm used to.

I'll put a new one in. The local autofactors have a m Remy one for 50 quid if I take in my old Valeo one. I know nothing of these brands, any I should avoid?

facepalm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:49 pm I'll put a new one in. The local autofactors have a m Remy one for 50 quid if I take in my old Valeo one. I know nothing of these brands, any I should avoid?

I don't think you will have any problems with a Remy, they are a European manufacturer/remanufacturer. You will find your £50 one is a re-manufactured one for that price but that is not a problem. It is one of the reasons you need to px your existing starter.

Thanks, never had to go that far anyway.

As a last ditch I earthed the battery to the exhaust manifold shield, and off she went; 5 minutes of cleaning a dirty earth strap and she's fixed.

Kicking myself for not checking that sooner, anyway you live and learn.