Surge and brake issue

Hi everyone, new to the forum and first c3.... It's an 05 16 valve 1.4 hdi xtr, 80k. Only had it just over a month and already been back to garage 3 times. Siezed calliper twice which was replaced on second visit, leaking driveshaft oil seal replaced.
I have 2 problems, not sure if they are related but... On starting the car the brake pedal kicks up slightly, you can see it happen but hear it especially from cold start. I mentioned this to the garage and they said they'd never heard of such a thing and nothing got done about it. I also phoned a citroen dealer who hadn't a clue either.
Secondly, after light braking the car seems to surge forward especially in 3rd and 4th gears which is quite unnerving at times. Dipping the clutch doesn't cause erratic revving, nor does it shoot off at a great speed and continue up the scale. It will tootle along without any pressure on accelerater at all??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Ken.

Hi Kenco

Do you have any previous service or particularly previous maintenance work records or receipts? From before you owned the C3.

Hi mate and thanks for the reply. Unfortunately not, (other than some service stuff) the car does look well maintained ish with new exhaust, front and back springs and the engine looks very clean.... No smoke etc. But no history. Forgot to mention 2 ball joints have been replaced by garage too, this along with the seized calliper and a misted passenger headlamp and it sailed through its Mot with no advisories??
It's lovely to drive, very nippy and great mpg, there aren't any lights on the dash (all go out) and starts first time every time so far. Just wondered if there's anything I could do about the surge issue?? I've searched Google and had seen someone else mention this but no solution to what causes it.
I do have a buzzing when putting ignition on, sometimes louder than others and sometimes lasting a little longer than other times.
Thanks again.

Kenco wrote:But no history.

Oh well, it may have helped.

Kenco wrote:On starting the car the brake pedal kicks up slightly, you can see it happen but hear it especially from cold start.

Strange behaviour. Two things spring to mind that could move the pedal and they are the brake servo and the ABS pump system.

You can do some tests with the servo, try this

With the engine off, pump the brake pedal a few times so the pedal is hard.
Hold pressure on the pedal while you start the engine.
When the engine starts, the pedal should drop a bit and this indicates that the servo is working properly.

Also, under normal braking does the brake pedal feel progressive? Not hard and difficult to depress?

But testing the ABS pump is not easy or a practical thing to do

Kenco wrote:Secondly, after light braking the car seems to surge forward especially in 3rd and 4th gears which is quite unnerving at times.

This is strange too. The vacuum system is the same for the servo and the turbo variable vane control. Previous work may have been done incorrectly leading to these 2 faults. Maybe some mixed up vacuum piping? Its going to be difficult to track down, that is for sure.

You can connect up the lexia tool to see if there are any codes stored which may give you some hints as to the problem or at least a place to start looking. But these are not common faults so you will need to do testing and inspections for yourself on the car

Hi and thanks again...
Just went out to the car and tried pressing brake and starting and it does as you say, slowly goes down. Didn't feel any kick, switched off and tried again without pressing and didn't kick either, I'll try getting a video of it when I go out in the morning.
Brake pedal whilst driving seems fine although brakes are very sharp, a couple of times I've gone to brake and nearly slid off the seat lol. I've just put this down to being a different car and something to get used too.
The guy from citroen suggested seeing if the changed calliper made a difference but if not said something to do with vacuum hose or valve blockage on servo?? But he'd never heard of anything like this and wasn't sure at all.
I'm not mechanically minded but willing to try anything if only to sort the surge issue, I can live with the pedal kick on start up as long as it isn't going to cause further issues later.
Didn't know if it would help but I'll sort filters and oil next week, already added redex to tank. I've been looking through the forum regarding servicing, only thing I'm not sure on is which diesel filter I need? Europart place has a few to select from on my registration.
Thanks again mate.

Kenco wrote:Just went out to the car and tried pressing brake and starting and it does as you say, slowly goes down. Didn't feel any kick, switched off and tried again without pressing and didn't kick either, I'll try getting a video of it when I go out in the morning.

Thanks. It sounds like the servo is not in bad state.

Kenco wrote:Brake pedal whilst driving seems fine although brakes are very sharp, a couple of times I've gone to brake and nearly slid off the seat lol. I've just put this down to being a different car and something to get used too.
The guy from citroen suggested seeing if the changed calliper made a difference but if not said something to do with vacuum hose or valve blockage on servo?? But he'd never heard of anything like this and wasn't sure at all.

Yes, we are both in the servo/vacuum area, but its not been reported as a common problem.

Kenco wrote:I'm not mechanically minded but willing to try anything if only to sort the surge issue, I can live with the pedal kick on start up as long as it isn't going to cause further issues later.

I don't think the kick itself is a problem, but maybe showing that things are not quite right.

Kenco wrote:Didn't know if it would help but I'll sort filters and oil next week, already added redex to tank. I've been looking through the forum regarding servicing, only thing I'm not sure on is which diesel filter I need? Europart place has a few to select from on my registration.

Filters and oil will only do good but are not going to affect the brake pedal.

If you PM me your VIN, I can look up and find the correct fuel filter for you. But if you are sure its a 2005 1.4 16v Diesel then there is only one type to fit and it is this one on Euro Car Parts website and use the discount code C3OWNER to save a bit more money

There is a topic for the correct oil for the Diesel C3s - here.

Many thanks once again.
Yeah, the redex and fuel filter was more for the surge issue, I even sprayed wd40 around accelerater pedal.... But as I've said previously, it doesn't seem to rev as it does this surge.

I went to the euro Car Parts and put my registration in and it listed a few giving me a warning that there was several to choose from. I know it's a 16v diesel 1.4hdi and definitely 05. I'm out most of the day but will pm you later with vin.

Really appreciate all your help, thank you very much.

Kenco wrote:I know it's a 16v diesel 1.4hdi and definitely 05.

Then the one in the link above is correct.

Kenco wrote:I'm out most of the day but will pm you later with vin.

No problem.

Kenco wrote:Yeah, the redex and fuel filter was more for the surge issue,

I don't thin this will work for you but wont do any harm at all. Redex diesel treatment is good for a rough idle from gummed up injectors and the fuel filter is a regular service item to help protect the injectors and injector pump.

Kenco wrote:I even sprayed wd40 around accelerater pedal.... But as I've said previously, it doesn't seem to rev as it does this surge.

The throttle pedal (TPS) is an electronic system connected the engine ECU. If you have throttle pedal problems you will have error codes stored and probably an engine light. I don't think you have a TPS problem.

I think you may have a problem with the vacuum system that is used to control the brake assistance (pedal rising), turbo variable vane and EGR (surge). Its a complicated bunch of pipes and if someone has go to them before you they may be incorrectly fitted and will need a good inspection to ensure its all connected up properly before changing any parts. Well that is my thoughts and best guess for this one

Kenco wrote:Hi everyone, new to the forum and first c3.... It's an 05 16 valve 1.4 hdi xtr, 80k. Only had it just over a month and already been back to garage 3 times. Siezed calliper twice which was replaced on second visit, leaking driveshaft oil seal replaced.
I have 2 problems, not sure if they are related but... On starting the car the brake pedal kicks up slightly, you can see it happen but hear it especially from cold start. I mentioned this to the garage and they said they'd never heard of such a thing and nothing got done about it. I also phoned a citroen dealer who hadn't a clue either.
Secondly, after light braking the car seems to surge forward especially in 3rd and 4th gears which is quite unnerving at times. Dipping the clutch doesn't cause erratic revving, nor does it shoot off at a great speed and continue up the scale. It will tootle along without any pressure on accelerater at all??
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Ken.

i have no idea with your brake pedal issue unfortunately, but the way you describe that the car surges slightly makes me wonder, are you laboring the engine in 3rd and 4th, as when a diesel is labored it pulls harder and harder which is called diesel surge and its perfectly normal to do this

oh, btw my car also makes a buzzing noise with the ignition on, i made a video about it , to this day i still have no idea what causes it but it doesnt seem to do any harm so i have put it out of my mind

Hi guy's, sorry for the delay.... I've serviced the car, oil change, oil filter, air filter and fuel filter. I thought the car ran fine before but what a difference after replacing fuel filter.

The surge issue tends to happen when you are say coming to a roundabout, slowing down (just touching the brake) and changing from 4th into 3rd. Continuing on through the roundabout at maybe 20-25mph, it will happily take you on its merry way without needing to touch the accelerater at all, staying at the same speed.

I've had diesels before and my previous car was a fiesta diesel.... I've never had this happen on any of them. It's strange and could very well be my driving lol. It only ever seems to happen after lightly applying the brakes though. I've noticed it happen in 3rd,4th and 5th gears. If I dip the clutch, there is no revving of the engine and sometimes releasing the clutch it will continue on still without accelerater.

Thanks for the vid, I'm not sure my buzzing is the same or as bad. It only happens on turning the ignition on,sometimes louder than others and sometimes crackly. It does go off by itself after a short while though (seconds). I'm guessing this is normal, it's just different sounding on occasions.

Think I can live with the pedal click, surge and buzz as the car drives great.

Thanks again guy's, appreciate the help.