struggles to start in the mornings, a lot noisier than normal

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
Please provide as much description including adding photos directly to the topic or videos you have uploaded via youtube as possible.
Forum rules
One question per topic.
No Gearbox questions
Diesel engine related problems
Think: Diesel engine, diesel fuel system, diesel injectors and glow plugs
My Name: d4funky1

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:57 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 120000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

My C3 usually starts first time every time until last week when it struggled to start in the mornings and became a lot noisier than normal.

I took it to the garage who put it on diagnostics which showed the following:

P0203 - Cylinder 3 Injector Circuit Injection Time Correction Outside Limits
P1163 - No Resetting By Accelerometer No Periodic Injector Resetting

I took it to a diesel specialist who was able to clear the codes and it ran fine for a couple of days.

I contacted them again and they suggested that I get the injectors re-coded in, they are unable to do this for me.

I am booked in tomorrow to have this done but I am wondering if this all sounds correct / familiar as i've already spent £78 and about to spend another £75 which would put me half way to a new injector being fitted.

If anyone could offer any advise or experience it would be appreciated.

Thanks
D4
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Post

d4funky1 wrote:My C3 usually starts first time every time until last week when it struggled to start in the mornings and became a lot noisier than normal.

I took it to the garage who put it on diagnostics which showed the following:

P0203 - Cylinder 3 Injector Circuit Injection Time Correction Outside Limits
P1163 - No Resetting By Accelerometer No Periodic Injector Resetting

I took it to a diesel specialist who was able to clear the codes and it ran fine for a couple of days.

I contacted them again and they suggested that I get the injectors re-coded in, they are unable to do this for me.

I am booked in tomorrow to have this done but I am wondering if this all sounds correct / familiar as i've already spent £78 and about to spend another £75 which would put me half way to a new injector being fitted.

If anyone could offer any advise or experience it would be appreciated.

Thanks
D4

Hi D4,

Sounds like one of your injectors is faulty, this causes difficult starting and poor running. I don't know why clearing the codes made a difference though, maybe the injector is intermittently failing.

Worn injector has high leakoff and causes low pressure in the common rail, leading to inhibited starting by the ECU.

Anyway, its easy to test for leak off see: https://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citro ... -t901.html

as for injector coding, you can do this yourself with lexia which is pretty much what the dealer will use, but you will need look at each injector for the code label and this may no longer be relevant with worn injectors :(

Injector Coding on a C3 1.4 2002 16v using lexia

Coding Injectors on a Citroen C3
Coding Injectors on a Citroen C3


£150 is cheap for a new injector, sounds like a recon one :?:

You can get yours tested and repaired here - Injectors tested by post, return service

If the injector is just a bit sticky, try a double/triple dose of Millers injector cleaner and see if it clears up. If you get codes again, lexia can clear them ;)
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: d4funky1

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:57 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 120000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

I need to get hold of this Lexia then - is £82 the cheapest you can get it for?
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Post

d4funky1 wrote:I need to get hold of this Lexia then - is £82 the cheapest you can get it for?
have a look in this link, some are on bids, some come from far away, some are UK based. You pays your money.....

You will need a laptop/PC to run the software, laptops are easier, and you can have the lexia software on the same machine as all your other programs. Windows 7 works on the later versions that are v47 or v48 in the listings, windows XP will take older versions.

this is the hardware interface and cables:
lexia
lexia
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: d4funky1

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:57 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 120000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

The codes you display on the screenshot in your first reply - are they the codes for the Injectors?

where about on the injector do I find these - can these be found without taking the injector out?

Also standing at the front of the car with the bonnet up which is classed as the 3rd injector as this is definitely the one with the fault?

Thanks again
D4
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 311 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Post

d4funky1 wrote:The codes you display on the screenshot in your first reply - are they the codes for the Injectors?
Yes, these are the actual injector codes on the screen

Lexia injector coding on a Citroen C3 diesel
Lexia injector coding on a Citroen C3 diesel

d4funky1 wrote:where about on the injector do I find these - can these be found without taking the injector out?
The codes are on a label on the injector, during manufacture the injectors have their various attributes which differ from spec due to manufacturing tolerances encoded and printed on the injector itself. Obviously as the injector wears the code is less useful. I would just look in lexia to see that there is a valid looking code present, then maybe later inspect the injectors for the code.

The injector code labels can be seen in the picture, can you see them in the car? a mirror may be useful....
C3 Delphi injector coding label on injector in engine
C3 Delphi injector coding label on injector in engine
Injector codes - delphi
Injector codes - delphi

d4funky1 wrote:Also standing at the front of the car with the bonnet up which is classed as the 3rd injector
Number one is at the transmission end of the engine.

d4funky1 wrote:as this is definitely the one with the fault?
The 6 million dollar question..... If you want to diagnose the injectors, perform a leakoff test (there is a link in my post above), the leakoff will quite clearly show which injector(s) has a problem. Its an easy, and very visual test for injector problems.


d4funky1 wrote:Thanks again
D4
No problem, do keep us updated on how it goes and which work you do yourself and which bits you off load to someone else :)
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: Pilgrimuk

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:17 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 99000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Our 2002 C3 1.4HDi 16v started doing this just yesterday.
Eventually starts but clatters like its got no engine oil (it has). It also smokes a bit when driving and smells quite strongly, from other posts this could be unburnt fuel?
From the what I've read we need diagnostic codes/reset and probably a leak test?

Edit: Having looked through the history it had 1 injector replaced 2011 and the other 3 in 2012. Am I being optimistic to expect them to last longer than 3/4 years 20k miles?
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Post

Pilgrimuk wrote:Our 2002 C3 1.4HDi 16v started doing this just yesterday.
Hi Pilgrimuk
Pilgrimuk wrote:Eventually starts but clatters like its got no engine oil (it has). It also smokes a bit when driving and smells quite strongly, from other posts this could be unburnt fuel?
Yes, probably unburnt fuel. It could be coming from a leak in the engine bay or the exhaust.
Pilgrimuk wrote:From the what I've read we need diagnostic codes/reset and probably a leak test?
Do an inspection of the engine bay for fuel deposits, fuel leaks - be careful of the very high pressure fuel.
Do a leak off test. Leakoff testing C3 1.4 Diesel

read engine codes to look for cam/crank sensor errors, use lexia for this.


Pilgrimuk wrote:Edit: Having looked through the history it had 1 injector replaced 2011 and the other 3 in 2012. Am I being optimistic to expect them to last longer than 3/4 years 20k miles?
New delphi injectors will do over 100K miles. Fuel filter and water in the fuel (routine maintenance) are an important factor in keeping the injectors in good condition. I don't know if your replacement injectors were new or second hand as you would have to factor this into the expected life span.
My Name: Pilgrimuk

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:17 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 99000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Ok been a while getting Lexia and an old laptop to run it from (nightmare, but done).

The first read of fault codes gave codes P0401, P0204 and P1163.
I cleared these and it miraculously started first time without laying a smokescreen.
I took it for a drive and there was still no smoking in the rearview mirror, but occasional clatter noise on acceleration and lower performance with it (much less pulling power). That seemed to clear after a while and it drove really well.
I ran another read of the fault codes at home and again got the P0204 cylinder 4 injector circuit - time correction outside limit and P1163 no reset by accelerometer - no periodic reset. P0401 did not recur.
I tried running the leak test in the injector menu, but it stopped itself and said high pressure fault.
I cant see an obvious leak and the injector codes are correct on the diagnosis.
Looking at the injectors themselves number 4 is different to the other three and older (assuming 4 is the left most as viewed from the front?)

Is it safe to assume I need a new injector for number 4?

I made a biff of doing the screenshots.....
User avatar
My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1938
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 110 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Post

C3CAR wrote:Injector numbering is from the flywheel, 1 at the flywheel to 4 at the cambelt.
Pilgrimuk wrote:(assuming 4 is the left most as viewed from the front?)
Yes, I would say no4 is the left most injector when leaning over the engine looking puzzled :)
Pilgrimuk wrote:I made a biff of doing the screenshots.....
At least you made a note of the P codes that you got.

It looks like you have found your culprit. There are companies that can test and repair the delphi injectors, have a look at this one on ebay for example.
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post