starting problems 1.4 HDI 8v

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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Diesel engine related problems
Think: Diesel engine, diesel fuel system, diesel injectors and glow plugs
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

Strange one this, the car most of the time starts no problem but on the odd occasion it starts for a few seconds then cuts out. The first time this happened I was sat in my car on lunch without the key in the ignition I had my food and then tried to start the car as I was going for fuel. (approx. 10 minutes) the car fired up then cut out.
I called the garage and they suggested locking the car wait 10 seconds open and then try again to start it, the car did start but I already primed the pump. The garage suggested it may have been the immobiliser cutting the engine off as I was sat in the car but failed to start it.
But this has happened again last night, this time I wasn’t sat in the car I played football tried to start it after and it cut out, I didn’t have to prime it this time I just turned the key a few times and revved and it started.
Just got back from lunch and I tried to start the car and it cut out again, I primed it and it started.
I noticed that when I primed the car there was a lot of bubbles in the pipe.
Could there be an air leak somewhere? Is it a common fault?
The car is still under warranty but i know if i take it to the garage it will probs start first time and they will tell me there is no fault.
The car is running fine and is not lacking any power; I’ve got an average of 58mpg since I bought the car 3 weeks ago.
Anyone have any suggestions? Is it worth bleeding the lines?

thanks
ryan
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

I have checked a diagram on the citroen service website: Engine - Air and fuel Supply -strainer filter priming pump.

Part 10 : fuel filter bleed valve ~ (its a rubber pipe)

on the diagrame it shows this pipe to be tied in a knot, mine is loose, could this be letting are into the system? and causing the problems?

Thanks
ryan
My Name: jbz2079

Experienced Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 3:35 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 75000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: BlueHDi (100 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

As the engine has started then stopped, it seems to suggest that there is air getting into the fuel supply somewhere on or close to the engine.
It will start immediately then pull the air in the supply into the pump then stop.

As you have noticed you can get it to run again by bleeding the air out with the primer.

On my car at the engine left hand side at the top it has clear fuel pipes and you could watch these when it has failed to see if there is air present instead of fuel.

Also check for air bubbles in this pipe while the engine is running, there should not be any.
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

I primed very sowly and for about 10 minutes on my break until the primer was rock hard eventually there was no bubbles, i will start it and see if they are no longer showing.
The car was serviced before i picked it up, maybe the garage didnt prime it after changing the fuel filter.

if there is air in the system is it a fault or will it need bleeding? if so how do i do this?
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Post

I primed very sowly and for about 10 minutes on my break until the primer was rock hard eventually there was no bubbles,
This is normally enough by itself. Once the system is primed, no more bleeding of the air is required.

If you are getting air into the system, then you probably have a leak somewhere drawing in air :( its a bit of a job to track down, but check all the connections to the fuel filter as it sounds like this has been changed recently.
My Name: jbz2079

Experienced Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 3:35 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 75000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: BlueHDi (100 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

I was going to suggest looking at all the connections on the filter first as these are the ones that get disturbed most often.
Failing that you are looking for a pipe that has chaffed through by rubbing on something, or look carefully for any sign of fuel weeping from any joints or pipes.

Once the fuel system has been bled of air after a filter change or other work it should stay air free till the next time it's opened, if it does not and gets air in it's got a leak somewhere and allowing air into the fuel lines, diesel pumps don't like air as it's compressible and they can't pump it so cause non-running or a very rough running engine.
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

Here is an image of the fuel lines, any particular place to check? im hoping to find the leak myself then take it back to the garage point it out and get them to sort it.

Image

the car runs perfect too once its going just the initial start
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

Also in the first post i asked about a pipe been loose, here is the image of it. Its part number 10: on my car this is hanging down and not tied in a knot.

does anyone know if it should be tied in a knot? Could someone check there car and see

Image
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3410
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 305 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Post

As jbz2079 says, check all the connections and parts attached to part A in your diagram, including how well 3, 4 and B are attached to the filter housing.
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: brysoni23

Contributor
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (54)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 34500
Trim Level: Rhythm
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

The car is booked in Monday morning so i will udapte what the problem is.

I checked said connections and all were fine, im 100% sure there is an airleak though.

If the car is facing downhill it starts no problem. if its flat or facing uphill i have to prime it then start. so obviously there is an airleak and the fuel runs back into the tank on flat or facing uphill.

Ive done some searching and understand that the airbox maybe be rubbing on the fuel line athat run underneath it and thats where the leak could be.

Does anyone have some instructions on how to remove the airbox? if i can remove it and find the leak will save the garage keeping the car longer than needed
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