Rattle from 16v 1.4Hdi Engine???

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My Name: cvloenen

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Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Hi everyone, Ive a rattle coming from the engine of my 16v 1.4Hdi, this started about 4 weeks ago. Its coming from the cambelt side, somwhere down that side, below the rocker cover level.
Rattles when you give it gas, not when idling. Rattles more with increasing engine speed.
Any ideas what it might be, water pump, fuel pump, belt pulleys? As it sounds like it comes from higher end of that corner of the engine maybe something with can shafts?
Look forward to hearing from you all.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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cvloenen wrote:Hi everyone, Ive a rattle coming from the engine of my 16v 1.4Hdi, this started about 4 weeks ago. Its coming from the cambelt side, somwhere down that side, below the rocker cover level.
Hi cvloenen, when was the cambelt idler and tensioner last replaced?
cvloenen wrote:Any ideas what it might be, water pump, fuel pump, belt pulleys
It depends when the cambelt idler and tensioner were last changed as my money would be on either of those 2 items for a start.
I don't expect it to be the water pump without coolant loss.

You can't mess around with cam belt failure, so now would be a good time to look into changing all the parts for the cam belt change if they are due (150 000 miles or 10 years). Doing the water pump at the same time would be worthwhile.



Those engines are known for a knock, low down by the crank pulley. The crank pulley (TVD) can fail at 100 000+ miles, giving a knock which varies with engine revs.

Cam belt kit citroen C3
Cam belt kit citroen C3
Cam Kit for Citroen C3 1.4 HDi 16v


C3 HDI Crank Pulley TVD
C3 HDI Crank Pulley TVD
TVD - Crank Pulley

Water Pump Citroen C3
Water Pump Citroen C3
Water Pump for 16v 1.4 HDI C3
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My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

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Thanks Arfur, I got the car 12 months ago and remeber the guy that sold the car stated it had recently been done, they probably did,nt change the ideler or tensioner tho. I think I'll take the covers of and see what condition their in.
Is the tensioner self adjusting?
To be more clear about the rattle, its like the noise u get from fins on a flywheel hitting something, not a knocking. But it only starts at about 1.5-2000 revs, then the rattling sort of whirring noise just increases with engine speed. At first I though its the Turbo, but had a look with someone throttling the engine and to my delight noise was not the Turbo "phew", these are expensive!!!
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My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 307 times
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cvloenen wrote:I got the car 12 months ago and remeber the guy that sold the car stated it had recently been done, they probably did,nt change the ideler or tensioner tho. I think I'll take the covers of and see what condition their in.
Good idea. Its a bit of a job to get both top and bottom covers off. You need to take the weight of the engine and remove the engine mount and crank pulley to get both covers off.
timing covers removed citroen c3 hdi 16v 1.4
timing covers removed citroen c3 hdi 16v 1.4
The picture shows top cam covers removed along with the engine mount.

cvloenen wrote:Is the tensioner self adjusting?
It is, but... the cam belt doesn't stretch in its life, the self adjusting tensioner is there to set the tension correctly when fitting a new belt.

cvloenen wrote:To be more clear about the rattle, its like the noise u get from fins on a flywheel hitting something, not a knocking. But it only starts at about 1.5-2000 revs, then the rattling sort of whirring noise just increases with engine speed. At first I though its the Turbo, but had a look with someone throttling the engine and to my delight noise was not the Turbo "phew", these are expensive!!!
A failed cam belt can be more expensive than a turbo :(

You can inspect the turbo inlet fins and shaft for play after removing the big pipe from the turbo:
citroen c3 turbo inlet - compressor vanes
citroen c3 turbo inlet - compressor vanes

If you are not sure if the accessory belt and its components (alternator, air con, tensioner) are at fault, the accessory belt is easily removed for testing the engine without it. But I would be taking a good look in the cam belt area, if this fails, you are in for an expensive job.

To be more clear about the rattle, its like the noise u get from fins on a flywheel hitting something, not a knocking. But it only starts at about 1.5-2000 revs, then the rattling sort of whirring noise just increases with engine speed.
You could be describing a failed bearing?
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My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Been thanked: 4 times

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Happy New Year, ive time on my hands atm so going to get this fixed!
Having had a look at this again and hearing a duff crankshaft pulley on a vid in the forum Im now almost convinced it is the crank pulley. They obviously dont last, and rattle a lot when they fail, just like the rattle Im hearing.
Anything particular tricky to consider when changing the pulley and the belt?
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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cvloenen wrote:Happy New Year, ive time on my hands atm so going to get this fixed!
Having had a look at this again and hearing a duff crankshaft pulley on a vid in the forum Im now almost convinced it is the crank pulley. They obviously dont last, and rattle a lot when they fail, just like the rattle Im hearing.
Anything particular tricky to consider when changing the pulley and the belt?
Consider changing the automatic tensioner at the same time. You can find the automatic tensioner at eurocar parts.

The crank bolt is highly torqued up so a long bar can be useful to get the correct torque on it to get the thing off.

The crank locking hole is in the flywheel, accessed from under the car. You will need to separate the flexible exhaust pipe part so you can get a suitable allen key locked in.

flywheel lock to remove TVD citroen C3
flywheel lock to remove TVD citroen C3

and the allen key from a different angle

lock the flywheel to undo the crank bolt on a Citroen C3 HDi
lock the flywheel to undo the crank bolt on a Citroen C3 HDi

Notice the exhaust system split at the flexible pipe to get access to the locking hole.


Crank Pulley (TVD) Bolt is 30Nm torque, then angle tighten 180 degrees.
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My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post

thanks Arfur, sounds like youve done this before. To get the belt of with this engine, do you prise back the tensioner and lock it through a hole, then when putting new belt on is there an eliptical d#adjuster to tension the belt first, then u release the locked tensioner?
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 307 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Post

cvloenen wrote:To get the belt of with this engine, do you prise back the tensioner and lock it through a hole,
Yes, exactly that.
cvloenen wrote:then when putting new belt on is there an eliptical d#adjuster to tension the belt first, then u release the locked tensioner?
You just release the tensioner by removing your locking pin (or whatever you had to hand to poke in the hole).

There is a useful projection on the top of the tensioner, it has flat sides allowing the locating of a spanner on it giving greater leverage to compress the tension to align the 2 holes for the locking pin.
cvloenen wrote:thanks Arfur, sounds like youve done this before.
I have ;)
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My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post

Thanks Arfur, I'm just waitingh for my new pulley. Let you know the outcome.
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