Problems starting, unless fuel is manually pumped

Hello all,

// 2005 C3 SX, 1.4hdi diesel. 101k miles

My local garage has been really helpful on this problem, they're independent Citroen specialists (owner drives a C3) but are beginning to be stumped by my C3's problem.

Quick summary: The car became very difficult to start - it would take many cranks over five minutes or more before finally it would fire. Once going, the engine runs fine*. The garage diagnostic tools initially showed P0002, P1207, P1163 and P0089. On examination it was established that a Citroen-recommended fuel pipe modification was not present so that was work was done and away went P0002, P1163 and P0089 codes. At the same time a new fuel filter was fitted.

Whilst it was nice to clear 3 out of 4 error codes it didn't change the problem with starting and code P1207 remains ("Wiring, FRP sensor, fuel pup (FP), ECM"). The garage guys explained that using the rubber "manual pump" on top of the engine to suck up fuel would help with starting - which is does. When the engine's cold I can squeeze the little pump around 10 times and the car fires perfectly first time. If it's been on reasonable run & I try to start it again with the engine warm, it can take many attempts at pumping & cranking before the car starts.

The garage electrical specialist has checked out the pressure sensor which he says is fine. Today the car is in for a leak-off test of the injectors to see if one or more of those might be lowering rail pressure on starting.

Does anyone else have any thoughts to add?

* The only other pieces of (perhaps) relevant information I can throw in; occasionally if I need to overtake say a slow moving truck - when I put my foot down hard to accelerate the dashboard engine management light will come on and the engine will 'hiccup' for a brief second under the heavy acceleration but go on to be OK. After a day or so the dashboard light goes away....

As a side issue if it does turn out to be injectors what is each injector likely to cost to replace?

Any thoughts or advice would be really appreciated.

Cheers,

Steve









*

Hi Steve

Having to manually pump fuel and also the lag when accelerating suggests fuel starvation.

I'm not familiar with the C3 diesel but I would think it has a fuel lift pump, usual in the fuel tank. If the fuel lines and filter are all good then that would be the place to look.

Missing Lincs wrote:I'm not familiar with the C3 diesel but I would think it has a fuel lift pump, usual in the fuel tank.

I think if it has one you will find it in the fuel level sensor unit that is accessed from under the rear seat.

steveharman wrote:Whilst it was nice to clear 3 out of 4 error codes it didn't change the problem with starting and code P1207 remains ("Wiring, FRP sensor, fuel pup (FP), ECM").

P1207 Fuel pressure regulation electrovalve Short circuit to -ve

steveharman wrote:The garage electrical specialist has checked out the pressure sensor which he says is fine. Today the car is in for a leak-off test of the injectors to see if one or more of those might be lowering rail pressure on starting.

This is a good start. Its not expensive to do and its even something you can try yourself with some pipes and bottles.
diesel-citroen-c3/how-do-i-perform-a-le ... -t901.html

steveharman wrote:As a side issue if it does turn out to be injectors what is each injector likely to cost to replace?

If you want a new injector it will cost more than the car is worth

Second hand ones are rare, but can be found on ebay - here sometimes. There are 3 on there now and they go very quickly.

Thanks to both, really grateful for the replies.

Following the leak-off test it turns out that two out of the four injectors are leaking pretty badly, the other aren't brilliant but not excessive (i.e; probably what you'd expect from 103k miles).

Oddly the car has returned to starting fine without any pumping yesterday & today, from cold and even after a long run. Bizarre. I've found a couple of places selling reconditioned / refurbished Bosch injectors at around £80 each with 12months warranty. Come pay-day the plan is to book the car back in and get all four injectors replaced. Will it cure the starting problem? Hopefully. But now we know that at least 50% of the injectors need replacing regardless, it seems wise to do.

Apparently Bosch part number 0445110135 is correct for a 2005 C3 1.4HDi - does that sound right? When buying injectors do I need to get hold of anything else to go with them. Excuse my ignorance....

Thanks again @Missing Lincs + @C3CAR

Steve

A set of replacement injector seals wouldn't be a bad idea. They may go back, they may not, they may leak when replaced, they may not but rather than leave it to chance I'd change them. Generic parts should be pence each.

steveharman wrote:Apparently Bosch part number 0445110135 is correct for a 2005 C3 1.4HDi - does that sound right? When buying injectors do I need to get hold of anything else to go with them. Excuse my ignorance...

No, the bosch are for the 8v, but you are showing as having a 16v which are delphi.

The bosch are quite common but the delphi are very rare

16v delphi injector changing
diesel-c3-tips/identifying-a-chuffing-s ... l-t12.html

do the 'fire seals' the injector clamp and clamp nuts - all the bits that hold the injector in place.

Citroen say 'also change the injector pipes'. But you may not need to, that is the dealer being extra cautious because of the very high pressure they carry and seal.