Picasso 2011 Fault codes P1403 & P1404

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My Name: jayfarnsworth

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Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:45 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 74000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV6 16-valve diesel (92 PS)
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C3CAR wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:00 pm Connect lexia/diagbox for the correct descriptions of the codes present.
I understand what you are saying but on the basis the some sort of Lexia would take time to get to me and given that money is a bit of an issue at present, is there nothing I can do in the mean time?

Would it not be worth using another dose of EGR cleaner (in case the dose 18 months ago didn't work, or I did it incorrectly) or doing any tests on the EGR?
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My Name: C3CAR

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Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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jayfarnsworth wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:45 pm
C3CAR wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:00 pm Connect lexia/diagbox for the correct descriptions of the codes present.

Would it not be worth using another dose of EGR cleaner (in case the dose 18 months ago didn't work, or I did it incorrectly) or doing any tests on the EGR?
It wouldn't do any harm to the engine to use more EGR cleaner.

You are back to lexia/diagbox to do the EGR servo tests, are you thinking about blanking it off, that may bring up error codes but would help if EGR was stuck open.
My Name: jayfarnsworth

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:45 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 74000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV6 16-valve diesel (92 PS)
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Hi,

Sorry for a long delay, December has been busy.

I'm not planning on blanking it off, I wouldn't want to do that.

I was more thinking of getting the EGR out and giving it a good clean directly. Previously I did it via the intake and I'm thinking that it may not have got as far as the EGR, especially if it is well fouled. After looking at exploded diagrams and photos I have taken of the engine with the air filter off, I'm thinking it doesn't look that difficult to remove the switching part of the valve. If it is fouled I can give it a good clean with EGR cleaner and see if that gets things moving again. Might be a job over the holidays.

I'm going to get a Chinese Lexia on the way as well but it won't be here quick.
My Name: jayfarnsworth

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:45 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 74000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV6 16-valve diesel (92 PS)
Been thanked: 2 times

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Just as a follow-up. I'm looking to get Lexia ordered. Just to check, I will need:

OBD2 to serial port wire (Lexia)
Serial Port to USB
Dodgy DVD with copy of Diagbox (v7.83) on it. (My car is 2011 so I understand that should be good in terms of version but I may need version 9 for newer cars)

Does that sound correct?
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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jayfarnsworth wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:02 pm Just as a follow-up. I'm looking to get Lexia ordered. Just to check, I will need:

OBD2 to serial port wire (Lexia)
Serial Port to USB
Dodgy DVD with copy of Diagbox (v7.83) on it. (My car is 2011 so I understand that should be good in terms of version but I may need version 9 for newer cars)

Does that sound correct?
It comes as a kit, all the parts you need are in the kit (and a few you may never use).

Are you going to use it on your 2011 or newer cars?
My Name: jayfarnsworth

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:45 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 74000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV6 16-valve diesel (92 PS)
Been thanked: 2 times

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Hi again,

Sorry I disappeared for a while. I was waiting for Lexia to turn up and then it took ages to get it set-up, 1) the tricky installation and 2) I had a bent female socket on the OBDII connector, it took a while to work that out.

I was a bit disappointed with the read out from Diagbox to be honest, I thought it would be more elaborate that the information I already had. The Diagbox result doesn't really add any more to the problem unless there is something on the software I am missing although it does suggest that the FAP app via bluetooth was giving manufacturer specific codes.

I ran a Global Test (the additive pump communication error wasn't permanent and went away on another run, and the fog light warnings are because I have LEDs in at the moment):
Lexia 040221 - Global Test 1 & 2.jpg
Lexia 040221 - Global Test 3 & 4.jpg

and then a specific one the BSI error codes:
Lexia 040221 - P1403  P1404 codes.jpg

Is this the sort of readout you'd expect?

Just as another thought, I found a forum (In Polish and about Citroen C5s). They also had P1403 and P1404 codes and the final post states:

A: [MkII] Errors P1403 and P1404 are multiplying Auxiliary heating
« Reply # 7 on: November 16, 2016, 11:00:06»

'It's been a long time since I started this topic, but maybe someone will need it. The recurring errors mentioned above were caused by the fact that someone previously set up in Lexia that there is additional fuel or fluid heating, and in fact I do not have one. The effect of such a driver configuration was the mass occurrence of these errors. Now that I have disabled this option, errors do not appear.'

So I looked at the config of my car through Lexia:
Additional Heating cropped no vin.jpg

Under the option 'type of additional heating' it has 'Heating resistors 1000w'. Does anyone know if this is normal? I didn't think the UK models would have these?

Would anyone expect anything bad to happen if I disable the additional heating to see if it removes the codes?
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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Hi

The UK diesels, well at least mine, has the additional cabin heaters. They didn't work for years and I never really noticed it. Eventually curiosity got the better of me and I faulted it down to a water damaged relay in the ultra hidden supplemental fuse box.

Yes, you can configure then out, considering they don't work, you won't notice any difference.

Since fixing the additional heating circuit I do find the heater gets warmer, sooner.
My Name: jayfarnsworth

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:45 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2011 (11)
Engine Size: 1.6
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 74000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV6 16-valve diesel (92 PS)
Been thanked: 2 times

Post

Hi,

Sorry for disappearing for a while again, life has definitely been getting in the way! :? In addition, it has taken me ages to get a stable working version of Windows XP (I have a legitimate key but I was having difficulty with no activation servers being online). That has now been resolved, I now have a solid XP VM, the diagnostics software, the wiring diagrams and the parts catalogue installed (no names given but I'm sure you know what I mean).

C3driver52, thank you for the suggestion. You got my mind working and I found your related post on the forum. The C3 Picasso looks to be a bit different to the C3, there certainly isn't the hidden box the same as yours.

20190522_161238.jpg
(Picture rotated, the left side is the top of the engine bay)

However, you did make me realise that the car could have an additional heating resistor, thank you! I checked the parts catalogue and it is there within the heater matrix. I then realised that the car has never been warm on cold mornings, even when the heating was set to 'hi' or the windscreen defrost setting. I also searched the wiring diagrams for 'additional heating' and sure enough, I found that 'Additional Heating 1' and 'Additional Heating 2' go from the BCP (relay 3 protection switch) to the ECU (8095C & 8096C on the diagram below). I found the BCP, it is black box with the red connector in the above picture. I figured the C3 Picasso design is different to the C3 and it is a sealed unit rather than a box of separate relays.

BCP-ECU Diagram cropped.png

BG06 (yellow connector on BCP3) is power from battery terminal fuse F6. The fuses on top of the battery are all intact and the BCP was getting voltage. However, no matter what I did, I could not get any power or resistance from the BCP3 outputs. So, I decided to replace the BCP3, I just got a second-one (tested as working) on the cheap for the moment.

New-old BCP3 fitted and the heater now definitely blows lukewarm air instantaneously when the exterior temp is below 10°C. Also, when I plugged the car into the diagnostic software, it no longer shows P1403 and P1404 in the Global Test (I didn't clear them, they just stopped appearing. They weren't in any of the individual sections ECU, BSI etc either).

GREAT I thought. However, the codes still show up on my OBDII reader. Also, and a bit weirdly, the codes also show in the French language section of the disconnected/offline version of the diagnostics report, not in the English written part but the part entirely in French. I did try and run the additional heating relay test in the diagnostic software, I couldn't hear the BCP3 ticking but I wasn't sure if that was the box that was being tested.

I'm therefore not sure whether the problem is fixed or not. The codes are certainly still there on the OBDII app. Is there somewhere else I might need to clear them?

I also managed to confirm that my Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor on the DPF isn't working properly. It was permanently reading 149°C on my OBDII software, I thought it was a bug in the app but it also shows exactly the same fixed temperature in the diagnostics software. I will start a new topic for the EGT, as I need help with the resistances that I found, but I am mentioning it here in case it is all related.

I've written this in attempt to clear this up in case anyone else who has similar codes finds this but if anyone has any thoughts on all of this, I would appreciate the help!
My Name: THEfrenchcorrection

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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:41 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: I dont know
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Hi
I've got to be honest, i myself have stumbled over this thread as i also have a exhaust gas temperature sensor that is always reading 149°c

Regardless if the cars cold hot or even while it's doing a regeneration.

Did you manage to make any progress as to why they read 149°c permanently??

Many thanks Simon
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 1868
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 89 times
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THEfrenchcorrection wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:30 pm i also have a exhaust gas temperature sensor that is always reading 149°c
I don't know the default value for EGT but the ECU will 'fill in' a default value for some of the sensors if the reading from the sensor is not as expected. Lexia will show a reading for a sensor, even if it is disconnected. Not all the sensor values do that, but some do.
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