judders in 2nd gear around 15-19mph after the car warms up

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

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Hi,
Nearly 4 weeks ago I bought a Citroen C3 Hdi 1.4 SX (Diesel)
Cam belt was changed two years ago at 98,000 miles OTC.

I have been having problems with it:

1) The car judders in 2nd gear around 15-19mph after the car warms up, making driving round car parks and towns a nervous nightmare.

2) There seems to be an oil leak; not sure if it's engine oil or gearbox.

3) There seems to be a straw-like object sticking out from underneath the car, which I noticed when I first got it home. I know diddly squat about cars, so forgive me for my ignorance but I would be very grateful of someone could clarify what it is, and whether it should be there.

Please find some images of the oil leak and the pipe underneath the car. It is going into the garage on Friday. *sigh*
c33.jpg
c32.jpg
c31.jpg
I thank you for your time in reading this post and would appreciate any input. :)
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2741
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Hello beulah
beulah wrote:3) There seems to be a straw-like object sticking out from underneath the car, which I noticed when I first got it home. I know diddly squat about cars, so forgive me for my ignorance but I would be very grateful of someone could clarify what it is, and whether it should be there.
Its a pipe, it should be there. I can't remember what its for, but yes, it should look like your pictures.

beulah wrote:2) There seems to be an oil leak; not sure if it's engine oil or gearbox.
You will need to find out which. The oils smell different and tend to be a different colour.

Engine oil is usually black after a while, but gear box keeps its colour but smells bad.
beulah wrote:1) The car judders in 2nd gear around 15-19mph after the car warms up, making driving round car parks and towns a nervous nightmare.
Has this only just happened after the test drive when you bought the car?

Is the servicing up to date?
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Thank you C3CAR for your reply. At least I don't need to worry about that pipe!

The car had been serviced and MOT'ed just before I bought it from a local dealer. He is conveniently not available to look at it this week, so I am booking it into an independent garage for an opinion and a fix, if it is cheap, as I am going some long runs in the car next week for the next 7 days.

The oil indicator on the dash display shows that it is full (5 'symbols').

When I took it for an initial test drive, it stalled when I pulled off in 1st gear but that was probably due to getting used to how a different car handles. The juddering did not occur during the test drive. I noticed it after a 45 mile drive to work, driving through towns on the way and when I was trying to find a place to park in the supermarket (obviously driving a little slower). To clarify on the juddering, I have to coast because it feels like the car will stall.

If I recall rightly, gearbox oil does have a unique smell (had a gearbox leak with a previous Ford Mondeo Mk2). I couldn't smell anything when I reached under the car to touch and smell the oil. The residue is black.

I am returning around 65mpg and the car performs OK in the higher gears.

I have inspected the oil cap and can not see any creamy residue.
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Latest update on the car:

I bought the C3 four weeks ago, seemed fine at first, then noticed an oil leak and juddering during low gear changes. Dealer took it in under warranty and said the mechanic had 'cleaned the injectors' and 'sealed the oil sump' and 'put in some additive'. I correctly diagnosed the leak to be an engine oil leak.

Get it home to discover the oil was still dripping from the sump. When I came back from long drive yesterday, the car was losing power when I pressed the accellerator several times when climbing on an A road. I was going from 55 down to 30.

There is also a slight delay on ignition - maybe six turnovers before engine kicks in.

I have also had problems with the heater - I'd put it on the hottest setting - there would be a bit of heat then it would go cold. I would then have to turn the knob down to cold, then hot setting to get the heat back. Then it would blast heat and go cold again.

Anyway I am frustrated with the vehicle and have requested a partial refund (Quoting the comsumer rights for used cars) or a replacement vehicle. Dealer has agreed and will think about it so I have to wait.

A mate of mine has agreed to put the car on the ramp make a diagnosis as I'd like to know what is wrong with it.

The reason why I requested a partial refund is that the 30 day purchase window has elasped and one repair has been carried out under warranty.

So far the car has lost half a litre of oil.

Time and knowledge about used cars is vital for getting a reliable motor - at the time I didn't have either. :-(

Keep you posted...
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 2012
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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beulah wrote:There is also a slight delay on ignition - maybe six turnovers before engine kicks in.
Could be faulty injectors, quite common. You can test the injectors with a leak-off test to show problem injectors quite quickly and cheaply.

But also a diagnostic read using a lexia tool can give engine rotational speed and the cranking fuel pressure so you can decide between an injector or the battery/starter mortor.

Our lexia topic (here)
beulah wrote:I have also had problems with the heater - I'd put it on the hottest setting - there would be a bit of heat then it would go cold. I would then have to turn the knob down to cold, then hot setting to get the heat back. Then it would blast heat and go cold again.
This could be the cooling system?? Is there any coolant in there?

Are you saying there is a problem with the blower delivering air, or is it just the temperature of the air that is wrong?
beulah wrote:So far the car has lost half a litre of oil.

Time and knowledge about used cars is vital for getting a reliable motor - at the time I didn't have either.
Yes, it sounds like a poor choice :cry:
beulah wrote:Keep you posted...
Thank you.
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Thank you for your reply, C3driver52. :)

The dealer has picked the car up for more repairs. He suspects the turbo, or injectors. His in-house mechanic is a youngster-in-training and only gets the cars serviced for a sale - he has taken it to an indie garage.

He also suspects that there is diesel fuel in the leak mix.

A refund will be offered if the car 'cannot be fixed' which I suppose is a euphemism for if the repair is too expensive for the value he sold the car at.
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Got the message today that it's one of the injectors leaking. Seal has been ordered.
User avatar
My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 2012
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Post

beulah wrote:Got the message today that it's one of the injectors leaking. Seal has been ordered.
Thanks for the update.

Injectors leaking fuel need a new pipe set, injectors leaking at the fire seal make a chuffing sound but don't leak fuel out.

This is the C3 chuffing sound topic

If its the fire seal, it won't be the reason for leaking oil, leaking fuel or even poor starting. It will be interesting to hear how this one pans out.
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Indeed. Thank you very much for the information.

I took the dealer through the process and he reckons the car is starting fine. I have not heard a chuffing sound but will listen out for it when I get it back.

I'll talk to the indie garage (a large and popular one, which is reassuring) when I collect the car to ask what has been done.

They are going to try and replace the seal tomorrow and said it would take four hours, so maybe they are aware of the pipe set? WOuldn't think it would be a four hour job just to replace a copper seal and plastic protector?

This may not be the last you hear from me in this saga... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
My Name: beulah

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:33 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Latest update:

When the mechanic fixed the seal on the injector, the injector wouldn't work!

It was sent to an engineer 60 miles away to be reconditioned.

The repaired car was returned to me this Friday and now there is a severe oil leak.

Took it back into the garage and apparently the sump needs replacing.

Car is still under warranty and it's the only car I have. I don't know what to do; whether to get it fixed up or demand a refund according to consumer law.

People keep saying its a 'nice little diesel'....

EDIT: It's end of story, I have just asked for a refund. Have had enough. For the 7 weeks it's been in the garage for three of those.
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