Intermittent Fault Turbocharger P0109 & P0238

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My Name: Adam

Top Contributor
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 3:15 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 93000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

Hi all,

As I'm on here :)

With all this weather we have all been having. The car has been playing up, a bit..
When driving in floods, loads of surface water and also just plain heavy rain, I lose all boost.
It only lasts just over a few minuets, if I'm doing 70 Mph it will not accelerate when it starts playing up and it is very sluggish going through the gears. It's 0-60 takes just over a minuet and when pulling out I have to make sure there is a very large gap to accelerate in, not ideal.

This problem did pop up once some time ago but I did't think to much of it as it shortly went away, it was also dry too.

Me
Did get some strange code that came up. Can't remember the P number but it came up with "Low turbo inlet pressure", very bizzare. I didn't know how the ecu can calculate a pressure value with just the MAF inline before the turbo. Upper deck pressure is referred to as "boost", which is where the MAP sensor comes in after the compressor section and intercooler. But I would guess the wording should be "Low turbo output pressure" ?? I gave the variable vane actuator link a pull and a push on the turbo. (Bit stiff and was hard to move, think it's got a stiff spring in the actuator). All has been fine till my starter motor packed up the other day, need to tap the solenoid every time to get it to start. I've just come to expect these minor sags with the age and mileage, coming up to 100k now. Can't complain over awesome MPG and road TAX.
C3driver52
Hi Adam,
Can't remember the P number but it came up with "Low turbo inlet pressure", very bizzare. I didn't know how the ecu can calculate a pressure value with just the MAF inline before the turbo.
Yours being the 16v engine, you will see there is a MAP sensor as well as the MAF. The 8v doesn't have the MAP.

This can explain how the ECU gets boost pressure and may prove useful at a later time.
I've got some pic's too.
Screenshot 2014-02-08 21.35.18.png
Screenshot 2014-02-08 21.35.38.png
Screenshot 2014-02-08 21.36.12.png
Thanks,

Adam.
My Name: Adam

Top Contributor
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 3:15 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 93000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

I've just found this.
I don't know if these P numbers are generic or if they are specific to vehicle manufacture. Any ideas?

https://www.dmv.de.gov/services/Vehicle_ ... c_list.pdf

P0109 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Intermittent
P0238 Turbocharger Boost Sensor A Circuit High

I'm guessing this could be a wiring issue? Or there is a poor connection?

9639027480 MAP SENSOR


Cheers,

Adam.
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Adam wrote:I've just found this.
I don't know if these P numbers are generic or if they are specific to vehicle manufacture. Any ideas?
https://www.dmv.de.gov/services/Vehicle ... c_list.pdf

P0109 Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Intermittent
P0238 Turbocharger Boost Sensor A Circuit High
You have the correct description for the fault already, in your pictures from lexia. You can't get any more accurate than that.

See:
Intermittent fault, Turbocharger Air flow at turbo too low P0238
Intermittent fault, Turbocharger Air flow at turbo too low P0238

Intermittent fault, Turbo pressure signal Regulation error P0109
Intermittent fault, Turbo pressure signal Regulation error P0109

I suggest you work with these as they are the ones Citroen would give you.

The descriptions point to intermittent problems with the turbo boost or turbo boost measurement.
When driving in floods, loads of surface water and also just plain heavy rain, I lose all boost.
Do you have your under engine splash guard fitted? (the one you have to remove to drain the oil)

The 16v engine has a variable vane turbocharger, controlled by the turbo electrovalve and the feedback loop is from the MAP.

The turbo electovalve has been known to give problems, lack of power, lack of boost. Its electronically controlled by the ECU and driven by the vacuum pump. The variable vane system is mechanical and can wear.

You feel its an electronics fault, so I would be looking very closely at the turbo electrovalve - here - eBay


location-of-electrovalves-left-and-resonator-joint
location-of-electrovalves-left-and-resonator-joint


(Turbo electrovalve, left arrow, tucked behind the engine)

photo-of-one-of-the-valves-citroen-c3-turbo-pressure-control
photo-of-one-of-the-valves-citroen-c3-turbo-pressure-control


Thanks to Corkish for the pictures


diesel-citroen-c3/lack-of-power-at-time ... -t145.html
My Name: Adam

Top Contributor
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 3:15 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 93000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

Hi C3CAR,

Thanks very much for this!
I think I just get carried away and just want to get in as much info as I can.
You have the correct description for the fault already, in your pictures from lexia. You can't get any more accurate than that.
Do you have your under engine splash guard fitted? (the one you have to remove to drain the oil)
No, I didn't know it had one. I would guess the previous owner removed it.

I'll have a look at the turbo electrovalve and the variable vane system this afternoon. Is there any thing I can test on the electrovalve?

I've also got a manual for £9.99 from this sight too. I'm just going to set it up now.
https://www.emanualonline.com/Cars/Citro ... anual.html


Many thanks,

Adam.
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 93 times

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Is there any thing I can test on the electrovalve?
There is an option in lexia to test it, you run the test and listen for the ticking of the solenoid in the engine bay.
Do you have your under engine splash guard fitted? (the one you have to remove to drain the oil)
No, I didn't know it had one. I would guess the previous owner removed it.
The elecrovalve is quite low down, maybe the water splash is affecting it?
Citroen C3 HDi Vacuum system overview, turbo pressure regulation
Citroen C3 HDi Vacuum system overview, turbo pressure regulation
You can see 2 valves in the picture (numbered 1), one is the EGV electrovalve and the other the Turbo electrovalve
My Name: Adam

Top Contributor
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 3:15 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 93000
Trim Level: Touch
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

Post

I've had a good look around and can't see anything obvious. Connectors on the ecu and valve all look fine and there is no damage or chafing on any of the tubing. I did the actuator tests and all fine. Had a really good look in lexia also... :o I didn't know that there is tone of info and diagnosis parts.

I'm away with work this week and also I need to find my multimeter and go through one of the checks in lexia. SO will be back soon.


Adam.
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