How often should you change the diesel fuel filter?

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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Diesel engine related problems
Think: Diesel engine, diesel fuel system, diesel injectors and glow plugs
My Name: midiman

Experienced Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 141000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

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Hi,

My Diesel Filter changed by the garage approx 1year 9 months, or 17,371 miles ago.

I say it was changed but you never knew with these garages!! On the invoice it's listed as Diesel Fuel Cartridge £31.

Anyway, since then I have had my Diesel Injectors reconditioned twice!!

Two of the Delphis were reconditioned 1year 7 months ago, and I've just had to go back to get them looked at again. This time they said they have adjusted, and reconditioned another two.

I'm fed up with having to deal with these injectors and the car is still not right. It used to start from cold without any issues. But now you have to crank quite a few times.

It's running ok once it's going, but I want to protect the injectors as much as I can.

I've purchased a Diesel Fuel Filter from Europarts.

Do you think I get it fitted, or am I just throwing more money at a problem that I don't even know that it's going to fix?

I've also got a terrible rattling sound at low revs and I think this could be a Crankshaft Pulley problem. So that is going to cost me quite a bit to repair.
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 1877
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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midiman wrote:My Diesel Filter changed by the garage approx 1year 9 months, or 17,371 miles ago.
I do mine every other oil change, so at about each 20k and drain the water from it (not that I see much water in it) at each oil change, except when I change the filter. Haynes says every 37500/40000 miles, but this is reduced in severe operating conditions (school run cars).
midiman wrote:I say it was changed but you never knew with these garages!! On the invoice it's listed as Diesel Fuel Cartridge £31.
Its quite easy to do yourself if you are a bit DIY. Its on the top of the engine so access is good.

Currently, (for a limited time) the filter is at a heavily discounted price of £13.90 from this link to euro car parts and use the discount code C3OWNER ;) - enter the code at the checkout page.
Changing the fuel filter can help protect the injectors on a Citroen C3 HDi
Changing the fuel filter can help protect the injectors on a Citroen C3 HDi
Usually the filter costs more than the price above, so it could be worth stocking up on them before they go back up in price.

Prime the filter before fitting with some spare diesel to aid starting directly after the filter change.
midiman wrote:Two of the Delphis were reconditioned 1year 7 months ago, and I've just had to go back to get them looked at again. This time they said they have adjusted, and reconditioned another two.
You had 2 done, then the other 2 done. This sounds right as all 4 will wear at the same rate.
midiman wrote:I'm fed up with having to deal with these injectors and the car is still not right. It used to start from cold without any issues. But now you have to crank quite a few times.
It could be the starter motor/battery as low cranking speed causes poor starting, but so does poor injectors. If your injectors have been done, check the starter side of the engine.
midiman wrote:It's running ok once it's going, but I want to protect the injectors as much as I can.
I am the same thought as you, hence my more frequent filter changes and at such a small cost and easy job, I see no reason not to do the filter more frequently.


midiman wrote:Do you think I get it fitted, or am I just throwing more money at a problem that I don't even know that it's going to fix?
A new filter won't fix any starting problems unless your filter is completely blocked, which I doubt. But, if you can open up any removed fuel filter from the car, take a look at the filter element an look for severe contamination (there shouldn't be).
midiman wrote:I've also got a terrible rattling sound at low revs and I think this could be a Crankshaft Pulley problem. So that is going to cost me quite a bit to repair.
Yes, I saw you post on this rather long topic https://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citro ... 69-10.html
The parts are around the £50 mark, but add in the cost of a new drive belt for £10 while the old one is off.
My Name: midiman

Experienced Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 141000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

The fuel filter you listed is not coming up for my car.

Mine is a 2003 1.4 HDI 16 model.

The filter you posted states for 2002 onwards. It would probably work but I don't want to be sending parts back to Euro Parts as I have had it out with them a lot of times.

They recommend the Crossland Fuel Filter, I paid £18 for it.

But they are selling a discounted Crankshaft Pulley.

The car is still smoking and it stinks. I'm going to put it on the Lexia and see it is passes the Injector tests.

Before I got it repaired it was only firing on 3 cylinders and it was telling me that I have an intermittent injector fault on 2 & 4.

I can't do anymore than this come Wednesday.

1. Change Oil and Filter.
2. Change Fuel Filter
3. Air filter has been done
4. Change crankshaft pulley and belt.

It if keep smoking and starting poorly after that then I may as well part/ex or scrap it.

It's a shame because I have had it for nearly 5 years. It's a nice car when it's running well, but it's problems are starting to become apparent with age.

And I can't see how much longer I can keep these injectors running for.

What's the point of putting something back in the car that only comes with a 12month guarantee. It's just kicking the can along the road for a year or more at £125 + VAT each.

Bit fed up with the car and diesels right now. :cry:
My Name: midiman

Experienced Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 141000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Just checked Lexia.

It's showing as Injector problem outside range limits with Cylinder 1, and other faults related to Turbo sensor and reading speed.

I think the non related injector errors could be red herrings though.

The bloke at the garage said all the injectors passed, so I can't see why it's still smoking when you rev it over 2500 rpm, and I'm getting un-burnt diesel fumes.

Last time they done the injectors they all passed on the Lexia report.
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My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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midiman wrote:The fuel filter you listed is not coming up for my car.

Mine is a 2003 1.4 HDI 16 model.
Your information on the left shows it as an 8v not a 16v ;)

The link is for the 8v and so is the price, I can only guide you to the correct parts if you have supplied me with the correct model information. I can confirm that the 8v diesel filter and the 16v filter are not interchangeable but the service interval is the same.

The fuel filter for a 16v HDi C3 is available here at Euro Car Parts.

This image is of the 16v HDi 1.4 C3 fuel filter
Citroen C3 16v HDi 1.4 Fuel Filter
Citroen C3 16v HDi 1.4 Fuel Filter
midiman wrote:The filter you posted states for 2002 onwards. It would probably work but I don't want to be sending parts back to Euro Parts as I have had it out with them a lot of times.
The 8v filter and 16v filters have different mounting points and look quite different from each other.
midiman wrote:The car is still smoking and it stinks. I'm going to put it on the Lexia and see it is passes the Injector tests.
If it smells, does it smell of diesel? You may have a leak.
midiman wrote:Before I got it repaired it was only firing on 3 cylinders and it was telling me that I have an intermittent injector fault on 2 & 4.
Could be a fault with the loom or the ECU, or just badly fitted injector control plugs.

midiman wrote:And I can't see how much longer I can keep these injectors running for.
Are you sure the injectors are at fault?
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My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 66 times

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midiman wrote:Just checked Lexia.

It's showing as Injector problem outside range limits with Cylinder 1, and other faults related to Turbo sensor and reading speed.

I think the non related injector errors could be red herrings though.


Last time they done the injectors they all passed on the Lexia report.
The 16v engine needs the injector codings added to the ECU via lexia for optimal timing.

Like this

Image


I don't know how well you know lexia, but temporary faults can be erased to see if they come back and if the fault changes, try this with the speed and turbo error codes.

Lexia will also check for leaks, there is a leak test for engine bay leaks. You can also perform leak-off tests with some extra kit to diagnose injectors. Leakoff testing topic https://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citro ... -t901.html

The bloke at the garage said all the injectors passed, so I can't see why it's still smoking when you rev it over 2500 rpm, and I'm getting un-burnt diesel fumes.
Poor compression?
My Name: midiman

Experienced Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 141000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

C3driver52 wrote:
midiman wrote:Just checked Lexia.

It's showing as Injector problem outside range limits with Cylinder 1, and other faults related to Turbo sensor and reading speed.

I think the non related injector errors could be red herrings though.


Last time they done the injectors they all passed on the Lexia report.
The 16v engine needs the injector codings added to the ECU via lexia for optimal timing.

Like this

Image


I don't know how well you know lexia, but temporary faults can be erased to see if they come back and if the fault changes, try this with the speed and turbo error codes.

Lexia will also check for leaks, there is a leak test for engine bay leaks. You can also perform leak-off tests with some extra kit to diagnose injectors. Leakoff testing topic https://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-citro ... -t901.html

The bloke at the garage said all the injectors passed, so I can't see why it's still smoking when you rev it over 2500 rpm, and I'm getting un-burnt diesel fumes.
Poor compression?
Hi, C3Driver 52.

Sorry I have just updated my profile with the correct details. I didn't see that about the 8v model.

The error message that I am getting in Lexia is the same as before I took the car to the garage. The owner said that even though the ECU maybe throwing an error it doesn't mean that the injector has gone. It's strange because he says that he got them to all pass and put them back in.

I'm not getting any engine management lights either.

The message says
Cylinder 1 injector circuit Injection time correction outside limits.

I can also see the injector codes as in your picture. But I don't know if he put the injectors back in the same cylinders that they came from. He said he mixed them up on the bench by mistake when they were out of the car.

So injector 1 could have gone back in position 2 and so on etc.. I don't know if that would have made a difference? But all of the injectors are the same, they are the original ones.

I performed a leak off test before taking the car to them and injector 1 and 2 appeared to be fairy normal, and according to garage the output of the others ones 3 & 4 were not alarming.

Where it's failing in Lexia is on the Global Test, the stage where it checks the injectors.

I've tried erasing the codes but it says something about the codes coming back.

I also noticed the option about the Leak Test, but I didn't understand what it meant. So I didn't proceed any further.

I've now got the crankshaft pulley and drive belt.

So I'm all set for Wednesday to get everything installed by my friend, who has been a mechanic for over 25 years.
  • Pulley, belt
    Oil and filter
    Fuel filter
Then we will see if it makes a difference.

I don't think that it will do anything to the running problem, but it might stop the clattering noise.

I'll have to put it back on the Lexia and see if I can do anything to improve the problem.

Please let me know if you have any other ideas.

Thanks
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My Name: C3driver52

Guru
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 66 times

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midiman wrote:Sorry I have just updated my profile with the correct details. I didn't see that about the 8v model.
Great, that makes it easier for me :)
midiman wrote:The error message that I am getting in Lexia is the same as before I took the car to the garage. The owner said that even though the ECU maybe throwing an error it doesn't mean that the injector has gone. It's strange because he says that he got them to all pass and put them back in.
This is very true. Error codes can be flagged up for a detection of a problem and not necessarily the cause of a problem.

Getting the injectors tested is good as this can rule them out of the problem, even though you get a code that mentions the word 'injector'.
midiman wrote:I'm not getting any engine management lights either.
This is how lexia can be so useful, to detect codes even if the engine light is not on.
midiman wrote:Cylinder 1 injector circuit Injection time correction outside limits.
For this, I would be straight into lexia to compare what is coded for the injectors and what the latest coding is for each injector there is. For a brand new injector, read the coding from the sticker on the injector shaft. For a worn injector, its anyones guess what the timings are and for a reconditioned injector, they reconditioner should supply the updated code.
midiman wrote:I can also see the injector codes as in your picture. But I don't know if he put the injectors back in the same cylinders that they came from. He said he mixed them up on the bench by mistake when they were out of the car.
The chances of getting the 1st one right is 1 in 4 as a chance, but the odds change if the first one is right and changes again if the first is wrong. They are not good odd to get all 4 right.
midiman wrote: So injector 1 could have gone back in position 2 and so on etc.. I don't know if that would have made a difference? But all of the injectors are the same, they are the original ones.
Yes, all the numbers in the boxes in the ECU are in the wrong places. Injector timings will be off, maybe even enough off to give a timing error code? But I couldn't see it making it smoke or smell, but maybe there is more going on.

Can you screen capture and add the lexia screen showing the 'Cylinder 1 injector circuit Injection time correction outside limits.' and attach it using the form below while replying please?
midiman wrote:Then we will see if it makes a difference.

I don't think that it will do anything to the running problem, but it might stop the clattering noise.
If the clattering is coming from the crank pulley, yes, you will notice a difference, but if its because of a misfiring injector, then changing those parts won't make any difference.
midiman wrote:Where it's failing in Lexia is on the Global Test, the stage where it checks the injectors.
You need to go further, into the fail. Screen capture with 'ALT and Prt Sc' or use the lexia screen capture feature and paste into paint, then save and attach it to the forum topic reply.
midiman wrote: Please let me know if you have any other ideas.
See if the place that reconditioned the injectors supplied new codes and if not check the injectors you have in each cylinder match what is in the ECU by using lexia to read it. Change either the injectors or the programming so they match, then try the engine again.
My Name: midiman

Experienced Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 141000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

C3driver52 wrote:
midiman wrote:Sorry I have just updated my profile with the correct details. I didn't see that about the 8v model.
Great, that makes it easier for me :)
midiman wrote:The error message that I am getting in Lexia is the same as before I took the car to the garage. The owner said that even though the ECU maybe throwing an error it doesn't mean that the injector has gone. It's strange because he says that he got them to all pass and put them back in.
This is very true. Error codes can be flagged up for a detection of a problem and not necessarily the cause of a problem.

Getting the injectors tested is good as this can rule them out of the problem, even though you get a code that mentions the word 'injector'.
midiman wrote:I'm not getting any engine management lights either.
This is how lexia can be so useful, to detect codes even if the engine light is not on.
midiman wrote:Cylinder 1 injector circuit Injection time correction outside limits.
For this, I would be straight into lexia to compare what is coded for the injectors and what the latest coding is for each injector there is. For a brand new injector, read the coding from the sticker on the injector shaft. For a worn injector, its anyones guess what the timings are and for a reconditioned injector, they reconditioner should supply the updated code.
midiman wrote:I can also see the injector codes as in your picture. But I don't know if he put the injectors back in the same cylinders that they came from. He said he mixed them up on the bench by mistake when they were out of the car.
The chances of getting the 1st one right is 1 in 4 as a chance, but the odds change if the first one is right and changes again if the first is wrong. They are not good odd to get all 4 right.
midiman wrote: So injector 1 could have gone back in position 2 and so on etc.. I don't know if that would have made a difference? But all of the injectors are the same, they are the original ones.
Yes, all the numbers in the boxes in the ECU are in the wrong places. Injector timings will be off, maybe even enough off to give a timing error code? But I couldn't see it making it smoke or smell, but maybe there is more going on.

Can you screen capture and add the lexia screen showing the 'Cylinder 1 injector circuit Injection time correction outside limits.' and attach it using the form below while replying please?
midiman wrote:Then we will see if it makes a difference.

I don't think that it will do anything to the running problem, but it might stop the clattering noise.
If the clattering is coming from the crank pulley, yes, you will notice a difference, but if its because of a misfiring injector, then changing those parts won't make any difference.
midiman wrote:Where it's failing in Lexia is on the Global Test, the stage where it checks the injectors.
You need to go further, into the fail. Screen capture with 'ALT and Prt Sc' or use the lexia screen capture feature and paste into paint, then save and attach it to the forum topic reply.
midiman wrote: Please let me know if you have any other ideas.
See if the place that reconditioned the injectors supplied new codes and if not check the injectors you have in each cylinder match what is in the ECU by using lexia to read it. Change either the injectors or the programming so they match, then try the engine again.
Hi,

I will try and post something tonight.

The problem is getting the injectors in and out. Especially when the Garage charges me £100 every time.

That's more or less the cost of a recon Delphi.

I would like to know how to do it myself. It looks fairly straight forward in the Haynes guide, and I don't believe that it's as difficult as the garage make it out to be!! They keep telling me how hard it is.

So I am going to ask my mechanic friend to show me how to lift them.

This could save me a lot of time and money. Because I could post them to be tested elsewhere, and I wouldn't have to drive 30 miles to the specialist injector garage.

I feel like I am being maced for something that could be relatively simple.

I just paid £366 for a bit of tinkering, where I could have paid around £420 for 4 recons and fitted them myself if I knew what I was doing.

Final question.

Do you know what side Cylinder 1 is on?

Thanks
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2634
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Been thanked: 90 times

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midiman wrote:he problem is getting the injectors in and out. Especially when the Garage charges me £100 every time.

That's more or less the cost of a recon Delphi.

I would like to know how to do it myself. It looks fairly straight forward in the Haynes guide, and I don't believe that it's as difficult as the garage make it out to be!! They keep telling me how hard it is.
This topic covers removing the injectors on a 1.4 16v Diesel C3 ;)
https://citroenc3owners.com/diesel-c3-ti ... l-t12.html
midiman wrote:Final question.

Do you know what side Cylinder 1 is on?
Number 1 is at the gearbox end.
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