hdi injectors faulty, gold swarfy bits in the tank, won't run.

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My Name: cwrtcoed

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Hi
this is my first post on the forum, and i require help with my 2003 c3 hdi exclusive running the delphi system. I purchased a c3 hdi back in Oct last year, it was bought as a non runner ( big mistake), the owner stated that he was running low on fuel and the engine management light came on for a few seconds before going off again. He filled the car up and the ML light came on and it restricted itself to around 2000rpm. He took it to the citroen garage, but they wanted loads just to look at it, so stupidly i now got it.
I changed the battery because the other one was low and not turning over very quickly, and the engine did actually start for a few seconds ( as if running on three cylinders) then cut out. I then took the car to a independant peugeot/ citroen specialist and they conducted a leak off test and they said that the injectors were blocked and i required a new set. I then bought a used set which to be honest looked as if they had just came out of the packaging, but after it came from the garage the car didnt even fire at all, when i put the replacement inj in.
Anyhow, i then took all the eight injectors to a delphi specialist and they said that all of the eight i had were knackered, but before i bought new ones i thought lets get a second opinion, and the another garge said exactly the same. However, he said that the original ones i had could be salvaged, and most injectors can be serviced but garages just want you to buy new ones. he advised that the used injectors i bought was to send them back to the seller because they were knackered. So i paid £250 to have the original inj serviced, and was advised to check the fuel tank and pump for wear and swarf, and lo and behold gold swarfy bits in the tank. I emptied the tank and had it professionally cleaned, i blew all the fuel lines out, changed the fuel pump and put it all back together to find i still had a non starting car.
I then took it to another citroen specialist who advised that he thought it was the ecu, so i then bought a second hand ecu along with new locks and keys, and to my amazement the car still didnt start, the garage said that there was signal going from the ecu to the inj but they were still not opening, and he was waiting for a specialist machine with diodes( which had gone off for repair) and this would record if the inj were actaully getting signal and if they wasnt, then he thinks it must be the injectors. he had taken the original inj out and sent to another delphi garage and they said the inj are knackered, but the garage who done the service on them said they were ok?? The car has been in this garage for " wait for it" 6 MONTHS and im still waiting. The fuel pump pressure is ok, so im at my wits end now waiting for this car to be sorted, has anyone had this type of problem with the delphi system, and what was the outcome??
My Name: Hope_it_works_out

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HI

Yes I'm having a similar problem. My car will start but is only running on 3 cylinders in default/limp mode. No 4 Injector has been replaced with a reconditioned delphi one but the problem persists. Has the garage ensured that the coding of all injectors is correct on lexia?

Would also be handy to know what fault codes you have? And need to double check for any other fault codes on the other systems other than engine codes. The BSI, radio, air con systems etc. Can you get that info?
My Name: cwrtcoed

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Hi
yes the inj have been coded, same as the replacement ecu, the car will still start even if the inj have not been coded, just runs a bit lumpy. The garage owner has been working for citroen for years and uses the nexia system to run the cars diagnostics. Just cant see how a garage can hold onto a car for 6 months and still not fixed it, and they alleged to be citroen specialists?? I cant think what else it can be besides the inj, ive changed everything else, just got to wait and see.
Have they done a leak off test with all of your inj?
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My Name: C3CAR

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Hi cwrtcoed
changed the fuel pump and put it all back together
What was the state of the fuel filter? Did you post-mortem it, as I guess you put a new one in.

i then bought a second hand ecu
the inj have been coded, same as the replacement ecu
Be careful you are not coding a good ecu with corrupt data copied from a corrupted ECU.
(The ECU holds the injector coding, not the injectors)

because the other one was low and not turning over very quickly, and the engine did actually start for a few seconds
Low engine turning speed will prevent the engine from starting (computer intervention), check the starter motor is spinning at the minimum spec speed.

Sounds like you may have 2 faults (starting and running)
My Name: Hope_it_works_out

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The starting point is defo obtaining the fault codes in the ECU. I have the codes for my faults and it is basically open circuit on inj 4. There is also a fault relating to no periodic resetting by the accelerometer (knock sensor), that one is there because the sensor does not detect detonation on cylinder 4 so the ecu prohibits the resetting. So my problem is either a blown transistor within the ecu that controls the pulse to fire no 4, wiring issue, or a control input failure to the ecu. Will keep you updated Im at citroen on Thursday.

AS for 6 months in the garage, there must be a pretty bad problem! Ask for the codes, full report on their fault finding procedures and think about getting someone else to look at it mate.
My Name: Hope_it_works_out

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ah....just had another thought. You changed the locks and keys, has the BSI been recoded or was that changed too?
My Name: cwrtcoed

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Hi
yes the locks have been changed, the filter was changed, the ecu and bsi was from the same car. Only trouble is that when i bought the ecu,bsi locks etc i only had around a month guarantee, now thats long gone due to the time it has taken. I dont think its a case of a serious problem because all problems can be sorted out, its that i get told that he has to put the priority jobs first, the ones he can get in and out quickly to pay his bills, and just does mine when he can. i can appreciate what hes saying, he does have a business to run, but the only person who has lost out in this case is me.
I did have a fault code, ill have to check the paperwork i had with the car, im sure it was something to do with the fuel pressure, but i think that was some thing to do with the worn pump, ive even put an additional fuel filter which is magnetised.
My Name: cwrtcoed

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well just an update regarding my c3, 11 months on and the car is still in the garage!!!!! wtf. He states that it must be the inj because he gets a pulse to the original ones but they wont open, im getting the same excuse that he is busy and only can look at my car when it gets quiet. Should i consider taking the car elsewhere and tell him to shove it and not give him a penny, because i cant prove if he has done anything to the car because im still in the same position from 11 months ago, plus ive lost the 12 months tax mot and insurance i paid along the the warranty i had on the parts i changed when it first went into the garage.
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 176 times
Been thanked: 93 times

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Hello cwrtcoed

Thanks for the update, I am sad to hear is not good news.
im getting the same excuse that he is busy and only can look at my car when it gets quiet.
If it never gets quiet, your car will never get looked at, and never fixed.

Should i consider taking the car elsewhere and tell him to shove it and not give him a penny
1. I do think you should take the car elsewhere, to someone who has the time to take the job on.

2. But I do think he is due some money for some of the time he has spent on the car. You need to see his job sheet on the hours he has spent and the work done on your car. It was your decision to leave the car for 12 months, you could have collected it (on a trailer) at any time.

He states that it must be the inj because he gets a pulse to the original ones but they wont open
Well, that's a start.


The problem seems to be linked to the gold swarfy bits blocking up the fuel system and damaging the injectors:
gold swarfy bits in the tank.
I emptied the tank and had it professionally cleaned, i blew all the fuel lines out,
So the swafy stuff has damaged all the injectors, so maybe there is still this gold stuff in the system as each time replacement injectors are fitted, they fail.

I know that with mis-fueling some garages change the whole fuel system rather than try to clean it as you can never be absolutely sure that all the contamination is removed with just cleaning and this will lead to premature failure of the system. You didn't mention if the common rail had been cleaned and inspected for gold swarf.


Do you know what the gold swarfy stuff is? (which will lead to where it came from)

changed the fuel pump and put it all back together to find i still had a non starting car.
Because the injectors are damaged by the gold swarf? or a problem with the fuel pump fitting? or something else?

He states that it must be the inj because he gets a pulse to the original ones but they wont open
Back to this one, maybe the injectors are knackered. You shouldn't fit new injectors until you are sure all the gold swarfy stuff is gone, otherwise it looks like you will damage more injectors.
My Name: cwrtcoed

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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:45 pm

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Hi
yes i cleaned the fuel rail and anything fuel related, changed the filter twice, and added two more extra inline filters with magnets. If or when he puts new injectors in it should at least start at least i would have known the fault. i spoke to him today, and it was doom and gloom for his garage, his mechanic left and he saying that he has been offered jobs elsewhere ,moaning about hes been open for twenty years or so and hes sorry he ever started his garage etc. Anyhow i mentioned sorn the car and he checked the tax disc and commenetd on how low the tax was for the car, he then mentioned that he had ordered new injectors around £800 but they sent the wrong ones!!!, he has now sent them back and is awaiting replacements. He estimated the bill to be around £1200 plus vat, i presume with the injector prices. i hinted if he wanted to buy the car off me, his reply was well you can forget the total price and leave it at that and ill keep the car. Not sure about that they are worth a lot more than £1200, it may be best to give me some money and leave it at that. Unless all this wait was what he was planning all along??, got to ring him in two weeks again because hes the only one working, he said think about his offer let him know within the two weeks.
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