changing diesel injectors

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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My Name: cvloenen

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Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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My 1.4 16 V has been sometimes difficult to start when cold and often emits quite a lot of white smoke at start up, and after a while it clears and engine runs smoothly. Also sometimes when hot and especially at low speeds the engine goes rough and white smoke emits again, and will clear after a while. It does look like an injector is sometimes staying open. The garage did a diagnostic and say its is a faulty injector no 2. I,ll try and change this myself with a recon.
If anyone has had similar issues and found somthing else to be the problem please let me know before I get an injector.

Also, I saw in some of the posts that you need to code in a new injector, can this be true? As injectors for the same engine will all be identical how can this be and why?

Cheers Ian
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My Name: C3CAR

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Welcome to the forum Ian
Also, I saw in some of the posts that you need to code in a new injector, can this be true?
It is true. The injectors are manufactured to a tolerance. The injector code (printed on the injector) is information about its tolerance. This needs to be inputted to the engine ECU, so the ECU can control the injector with its optimal control.

If you don't add the injector code to the ecu, the injector will fire, but the control of fuel and timing won't be exact, expect poorer consumption, smoke, less power, but quite how bad depends on how the new injector codes differ from the old ones...

Injector Coding on a C3 using lexia
Image


The only tool to code the injector to the ecu is Lexia

This post has some information on 'Citroen C3 Injector Removal'.

There is a post HERE that discusses injector testing before replacement.
My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Thank for that, I have searched in Internet and found some Lexia programming kits at under £100, so I'll probably go for one of these to code in my new injector when I get it.

Is it possable to get the injectors out without needing to take the cylinder head cover off? Everything looks rather crammed.

Ian
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My Name: C3CAR

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Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Is it possable to get the injectors out without needing to take the cylinder head cover off?
The inlet manifold?

Its tight, some may come out, did you read this post?.
My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Thanks, the post was very informing, especially helpful in identifying the required tools to do the job. I will probably go for grinding the intake manafold rather than removing it to try and get injectors out. Actually its no 2 I only beed to change, at least thats what the garage said.
Is there no photos on site showing how much plastic you might need to take of the manafold to get the nuts off?

Can someone confirm the Lexia gear can enable injector coding before I buy one, and wether lexia 2 & 3 do it.

Also, I might try and get injector from scrappy. There seems to be a few makes/models sharing the same injector as the 1.4 16 v. Does anyone know where theres a list of cars using it, may help me find one at the scrappy or of ebay. Does the injector manufacuturer list the cars the part number fits?

Excuse the budget strategy but I just got the car (not to cheap considering all its probs) and already spent lots, new discs all round and rear brake pipes and other small things.

Thanks Ian
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My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2658
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Is there no photos on site showing how much plastic you might need to take of the manafold to get the nuts off?
I think its only a bit, one of those jobs where you try to remove the nuts and fail, grind a small bit off, grind again and try to remove again. You may find it varies between versions of casting for the inlet manifold. But just take a small amount off at a time and never take off too much.
Can someone confirm the Lexia gear can enable injector coding before I buy one, and wether lexia 2 & 3 do it.
It depends on your operating system on the PC/Laptop you intend to use, this one is lexia 3 and works on windows XP, but this one runs on Windows 7 (32bit only). Lexia 3 works on the C3.
Also, I might try and get injector from scrappy. There seems to be a few makes/models sharing the same injector as the 1.4 16 v. Does anyone know where theres a list of cars using it, may help me find one at the scrappy or of ebay. Does the injector manufacuturer list the cars the part number fits?
I don't know which other cars have the same injectors, sorry. You can have yours tested and repaired here - on ebay
Excuse the budget strategy but I just got the car (not to cheap considering all its probs) and already spent lots, new discs all round and rear brake pipes and other small things.
Budget strategy is a good idea :D the C3 can get expensive if you just throw money at it without proper diagnostics.



one of those difficult to find delphi injectors found on the 1.4 16v HDi 90hp C3 engine
difficult to find delphi injectors found on the 1.4 16v HDi 90hp  C3 engine
difficult to find delphi injectors found on the 1.4 16v HDi 90hp C3 engine
My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Thanks for that, I'll start the process and get the Lexia 3 gear.
I guess if I go too far with the grinding I could always pick up another manafold.

Ian
My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Been thanked: 4 times

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I have some update on whats happening. Would appreciate any thoughts you have,

A purchased an Ebay Lexia 3 diagnostic kit which has so far turned out to be not much cope. Its probably going to have to be returned.

With the car I would like to try and confirm if the smoky problem is a faulty injector and which one it is. Today I pulled the electric clips of each individually injector in turn a started the car to see if smoke stopped -hoping that if it did it would point to that unplugged injector being responsable for flooding the engine. It didnt happen, car ran smoky no matter which injector was unplugged. My theory or at least what I hope is happening is that the faulty one is stuck open all the time and therefore will run its cylinder when unplugged as well. But unplugging others didnt seem to make engine run any rougher?
Maybe I should unplugg pairs at a time thinking that when two reliable injectors are unplugged that the car will run noticably rougher compared to when the pair includes the faulty one.
I'm also thinking best way to find out which is faulty might be to stop fuel to each injector in turn. I suppose I can do this by blanking of the injector pipe after disconnecting it from the injector. That way fuel pressure would still be charged to run other cylinders?
Any thoughts on that or easier methods ?

The general symptoms as I see it is that the engine is being flooded, and I would like to find one of the injectors being responsible, but they could well all be flooding the engine, possibly getting the wrong ECU info. Any ideas in other obvious areas of the car that I could check that might cause the flooding?

Thanks Ian
My Name: cvloenen

Experienced Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

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Further to last post, it should actually be possible to identify faulty injector by unplugging I think. And it may take unplugging pairs as I mensioned, would anybody not think so or am I missing something?
But if it turns out that you can unplug pairs and still the engine runs not extremely rough then it may well point to fuel pressure being excessive? Higher than normal fuel pressure due to pressure valve defect- would that not open the injector to feed the combustion chamber despite no helpful electromagnetic signal? Does anybody know if thats happened before?
I read in the haynes manual that the injector opening is relied apon a balance between fuel pressure and the electromagnetic signal. And it sounds like it can open without a elect signal if perhaps the fuel pressure is increased more than is normal.

Ian
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My Name: C3driver52

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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A purchased an Ebay Lexia 3 diagnostic kit which has so far turned out to be not much cope. Its probably going to have to be returned.
Its a steep learning curve to get lexia installed and working, there is some information further down the page here with room for more questions. Getting lexia connected is going to be key to diagnose the problem and code a replacement injector into the system.

With the car I would like to try and confirm if the smoky problem is a faulty injector and which one it is. Today I pulled the electric clips of each individually injector in turn a started the car to see if smoke stopped -hoping that if it did it would point to that unplugged injector. It didnt happen, car ran smoky no matter which injector was unplugged. My theory or at least what I hope is happening is that the faulty one is stuck open all the time and therefore will run its cylinder when unplugged as well. But unplugging others didnt seem to make engine run any rougher?
I like your theory. Shame it didn't pan out. Sounds like the computer is getting involved.

Maybe I should unplugg pairs at a time thinking that when two reliable injectors are unplugged that the car will run noticably rougher compared to when the pair includes the faulty one.
I would be surprised if the engine starts and runs on 2 cylinders! I would be interesting to see what happens.

I'm also thinking best way to find out which is faulty might be to stop fuel to each injector in turn. I suppose I can do this by blanking of the injector pipe after disconnecting it from the injector. That way fuel pressure would still be charged to run other cylinders?
I would advise against this. The pressure in the fuel line for the injectors is very high and quite dangerous. Not to be messed with.

Try a 'leak off test' on the injectors if you want to do a quick test, or remove them an have a proper test done on them by a test service this one on ebay or a local delphi agent.


Leak off test results
Image
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