2004 won't start, possible bsi damaged by jump start, eco mode

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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My Name: damtom85

Contributor
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 13000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)

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Hi all.

My first post on this forum.

short description prior to issue. Citroen c3 1.4 hdi 16v 90bhp

my friend had this c3. one day he was changing clutch while radio was on in car. after changing clutch battery was low. he jumped car with leads. he noticed straight away that car was in eco-mod and battery was flashing and he couldn't start the car. he gave up with this car and I took it from him.

Now , i checked everything on on mechanical part of the car and it seems to be everything ok. i connected good quality bluetooth obd reader(obdlink MX) and i cleared all faults but i guess i need lexia to do more diagnostic. I suspect damage to BSI as i tried to reset it and no luck, battery fully charged, eco-mod still on.

Now:

1. is there way to start engine even BSI could be damaged ?

2. at my local scrap yard there is c3 diesel , not sure what bhp is but what i need to take from that car , ECU + BSI + key? and do they need to have exact number ?

3. my c3 is 90 bhp , will ecu and bsi fit from 68bhp version ?

4. there is fuse 9 empty on BSI , what is this fuse for ? and what current rating should be?

5. any other ideas what could be wrong .

thank you in advance
My Name: DanniAgro

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Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2006 (56)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 105000
Trim Level: LX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)
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At least I can tell you that the ECU from an 8 valve engine cannot be used with a 16 valve version as the fueling etc needed by the injectors is totally different in each case.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3441
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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DanniAgro wrote:At least I can tell you that the ECU from an 8 valve engine cannot be used with a 16 valve version as the fueling etc needed by the injectors is totally different in each case.
Yes, completely different system.

If you change the BSI you need to change the ECU and have the matching key all from the same donor otherwise it doesn't start.


All the fuses are here. Not all fuses are fitted on all models.
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My Name: DanniAgro

Top Contributor
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2006 (56)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 105000
Trim Level: LX
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU1 (60 PS)
Been thanked: 1 time

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Best to buy a complete engine and all electrics to make sure they are compatible.
Are you sure the original engine is kaput - it might be worthwhile asking a professional to check it, or can you check whether things such as plugs have been put into the right sockets? If it was working okay before the clutch was changed, and the battery was disconnected beforehand, then there must be a strong possibility that the engine can still be repaired.
My Name: damtom85

Contributor
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 13000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)

Post

Arfur Dent wrote:
DanniAgro wrote:At least I can tell you that the ECU from an 8 valve engine cannot be used with a 16 valve version as the fueling etc needed by the injectors is totally different in each case.
Yes, completely different system.

If you change the BSI you need to change the ECU and have the matching key all from the same donor otherwise it doesn't start.


All the fuses are here. Not all fuses are fitted on all models.
Ok thanks , can you tell me , do i need exactly the same number for ECU and BSI , or just any from the same engine 1.4 16v 90bhp. one seller on ebay claims number has to be exactly the same for both, but in my opinion if I buy set ECU + BSI doesn't matter as long it is from the same engine, am I right ?

Fuse 9 is not described in link you provided.

DanniAgro wrote:Best to buy a complete engine and all electrics to make sure they are compatible.
Are you sure the original engine is kaput - it might be worthwhile asking a professional to check it, or can you check whether things such as plugs have been put into the right sockets? If it was working okay before the clutch was changed, and the battery was disconnected beforehand, then there must be a strong possibility that the engine can still be repaired.
I've never said engine is dead , I think engine is fine as it turns , just BSI stuck in eco-mod makes engine to not start. Battery was used while clutch was changed , radio was on , after that engine would not start and eco-mod is on.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3441
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Been thanked: 121 times

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damtom85 wrote:Ok thanks , can you tell me , do i need exactly the same number for ECU and BSI , or just any from the same engine 1.4 16v 90bhp. one seller on ebay claims number has to be exactly the same for both, but in my opinion if I buy set ECU + BSI doesn't matter as long it is from the same engine, am I right ?
There is only one ECU for your year. You need a matching set of ECU BSI and the KEY from the same 16v engine (delphi) on the same model year.
damtom85 wrote:Fuse 9 is not described in link you provided.
Then there is no Fuse 9? Or no one knows. Image shows a 30A.
damtom85 wrote:
Arfur Dent wrote:
DanniAgro wrote:At least I can tell you that the ECU from an 8 valve engine cannot be used with a 16 valve version as the fueling etc needed by the injectors is totally different in each case.
Yes, completely different system.

If you change the BSI you need to change the ECU and have the matching key all from the same donor otherwise it doesn't start.


All the fuses are here. Not all fuses are fitted on all models.
Ok thanks , can you tell me , do i need exactly the same number for ECU and BSI , or just any from the same engine 1.4 16v 90bhp. one seller on ebay claims number has to be exactly the same for both, but in my opinion if I buy set ECU + BSI doesn't matter as long it is from the same engine, am I right ?

Fuse 9 is not described in link you provided.

DanniAgro wrote:just BSI stuck in eco-mod makes engine to not start.[/url]
Eco mode doesn't stop the engine from starting. Its a symptom and not a cause.

Bad immobiliser will stop the car from starting, low starter speed or fuel pressure in the common rail will do the same.
Battery was used while clutch was changed , radio was on , after that engine would not start and eco-mod is on.
Battery should be disconnected when changing the clutch. If you don't start the engine but leave accessories on, eco-mode will activate but starting will be unaffected.
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My Name: damtom85

Contributor
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 13000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)

Post

Arfur Dent wrote: There is only one ECU for your year. You need a matching set of ECU BSI and the KEY from the same 16v engine (delphi) on the same model year.
ok thanks . so you are saying that both ECU and BSI need to be from 2004(delphi ) ? no year earlier or later ?

immo is written in BSI , so possible damage of BSI can erase immo .

Just to clarify things , when he was doing clutch battery got low so he tried to jump started from other car, and he could damaged BSI that moment because ever since eco-mod is always on (from moment he tried jump leads ). From this forum i found out that this can damaged BSI.

other thing is my BSI is Siemens S118085300. all data(immo pin, vin , ECU number, mileage etc.) about car is written to eeprom on board with chip number ST95160 SOIC 8 pin . Did anyone tried desoldering that chip and solder back to spare BSI???
My Name: dougine

Contributor
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:14 pm
Model: C3 2009-2013, New shape (A51)
Year: 2013 (13)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 38000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)

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Hi, I did not quite get yet whether the battery of Your C3 is ok after having been jump started. :?:
My Name: damtom85

Contributor
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 13000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)

Post

i will post some updates.

I bought lexia and different battery. error i get with lexia it is P1207 'Diesel pressure is not correct'

I changed diesel electrovalve on pump and also fuel pressure sensor on rail , i got both used one from scrap yard.

after changed still the same , new fuel filter fitted and priming pump is very hard. error still the same . with lexia i checked fuel pressure and it shows between 0-10 bar while cranking. so i thought maybe sensor on rail is messing with me and shows incorrect pressure.

so i took fuel pressure gauge and connected to fuel outlet in high pressure pump before rail . and surprise pressure is 4-6 bar rarely 10 bars so lexia is showing correct values. High pressure pump is not doing correct pressure.

Today i got high pressure pump from scrapyard and i must say and when i try to spin it in hands it feels and sounds totally different comparing to old one .

now can anyone point out good guide how to set timing belt when one of components was changed??? thanks
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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You don't need to time the pump so just lock the cam and the flywheel.

The flywheel lock is accessed from under the car. Remove the exhaust flexy hose and in the bell housing flange there us a hole to align the fly wheel. Insert a long bolt or bar or Allen key to lock while rotating the engine until the holes align.

Cam sprocket has a timing hole to take a bolt that threads into the head to keep it secure.


You can dig deeper into lexia than just a code. Considering you have immobiliser type of fault, ask yourself if the wrong pressure is the fault or a symptom of the immo inhibitor. Check for immo in lexia, ecu pairing and key code transmission.

Don't forget you started with the thought of a damaged BSI.
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