1.4HDi clattety clacking and the engine misfires.

Questions specifically about a Diesel powered C3 (usually engine or fuel related problems)
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Diesel engine related problems
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My Name: AllanA

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Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
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Hello all

In this post I'm looking for a knowledgeable second opinion to my own diagnosis, which I won't describe here at the moment. I've been connected with the automotive industry for 50+years so know a bit beyond the basics of diagnostics but this issue on my wifes car has me really stumped. Been trying to sort it for some weeks and I've even conjured up a few new unmentionable expletives!!

Long story cut short is as follows. The car is 2007, owned from new and has 61000 miles registered. In 2021 I felt it was time for a timing belt change and as I had a lot of other projects going on at the time I put the car in to a local garage with a good reputation for a cambelt, idler, tensioner and water pump replacement. Job finished and the car ran well for about 4/5 months.

Then it started to cut out occasionally whilst driving and sometimes it would start and immediately cut out. After a few minutes it would start again and drive for some days or even weeks. Gradually this got more frequent so I decided to investigate it myself.

Out came Lexia and it showed many speed errors in the log - mainly PO339, so an inconsistent camsheft/crankshaft timing. First thing I checked after removing the timing covers was that the timing belt was still intact with no missing teeth. Next was the a visual inspection of the reluctor ring. BINGO! quite a few of the magneic sections on the outer circumference of the reluctor ring were gone. I then inspected the crank sensor and found that there were marks on it associated with rubbing on the reluctor ring. So my analysis was that when the cambelt job had been done some months previously the sensor had been fitted with insufficient air gap between it and the reluctor ring resulting in rubbing and damage to the reluctor ring magnets.

I subsequently found when fitting a new reluctor ring and crank sensor that indeed there was sufficient tolerance in the sensor fixing point to allow it to rub on the ring. I fitted the new sensor with a 2mm air gap.

Also since it was dismantled to replace the reluctor ring I fitted a new cambelt. Crank locked, camshaft locked and fuel pump locked. Turned six revs clockwise by hand, then again and again to be sure. All lined up and lock pins could be inserted in their relevant positions.

I also noticed that when priming the fuel system there was air in the system so replaced the fuel filter and the fuel lines which came as a fuel line harness.

Now my real issue. Started the engine and it idles real sweet and smooth at 768 rpm. Gentle increase in rervs and at 900/920 prm the is a sudden clack/clack/clack noise and the engine misfires. Release the acelerator and it's back to very smooth idling. Sound at the exhaust is completely normal with no indication of misfire.

I removed the timing covers and the crank/cam/fuel pump holes all align and lock in place correctly. So it's not a timing belt issue!

Lexia shows fault code PO104 - Flow meter fault. This apparently relates to the Mass Air Flow sensor! What??
Lexia also shows PO238 - Turbo Pressure fault!!
Lexia also shows PO 339 engine speed (crank/cam) mismatch. Which I think is down to the clack/clack and misfire occurance.

So, I'm at a loss. I'm thinking possibly a fuel pressure issue caused by air in the high pressure system but with the new low pressure lines and no sign of air in that low pressure system I can't fathom how that could be.

All informed suggestions are welcome and thanks for taking the time to read this lengthy post :):)
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My Name: C3driver52

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Posts: 2012
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 79984
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
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Hi

You only have 52K/62K on the clock, but it may still be worth doing a leak off test on the injectors if you suspect fuelling.


What does lexia live data show for cam and crank signals at 900/920 RPM and beyond when you get the noise?

Also check live data for fuel pressure on the same graph as cam and crank to see if you can see which one has the blip.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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TVD worn causes a clacket clack sound


see tapping noise from lower engine ?
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My Name: AllanA

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

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Thanks to C3driver52 and Arfur Dent for reading through my post.

TVD ruled out by removing the serpentine belt and running the engne. Same noise occurs at 900/920 rpm.

I'm going to check my version of Lexia today as I cant seem to access live data. I might need to do another clean install of Diagbox on my Win 7 Pro 32 bit laptop.

Any tips on how to access the live data before I run a new installation?

Will check injector leakoff today

I'll also take a couple of videos so you can hear exactly whats happening and will post them later today
My Name: AllanA

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Post

Fuel Parameters 7 Sept 2022- 1.jpg
My Name: AllanA

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Post

Links to the two videos I did today. One exhaust sound with no indication of issues and one of the engine running sweet on tickover but clacking at 920ish rpm and then back to smooth idle.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1STK9lA ... sp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWOXKV ... sp=sharing
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My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 345 times
Been thanked: 135 times

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AllanA wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 2:20 pm Links to the two videos I did today. One exhaust sound with no indication of issues and one of the engine running sweet on tickover but clacking at 920ish rpm and then back to smooth idle.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1STK9lA ... sp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWOXKV ... sp=sharing
Files not accessible :(

Can you youtube them?
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My Name: AllanA

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Post

I've never put anything on youtube but can try. Any advise pls?
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 345 times
Been thanked: 135 times

Post

go to youtube.com

click the icon with a '+' inside a camera in the top right of the screen and follow the instructions.

copy and paste out the youtube link and post them both here.
You can add an avatar to your account - Avatar or change your vehicle details - Car Bio or even add a signature to your posts - Signature. But this is not all you can do in the User Control Panel :)
My Name: AllanA

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:48 pm
Model: C3 2006-2009, Facelift model
Year: 2007 (57)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 52000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: Yes
LHD or RHD: LHD (Europe)
Engine name: DV4 diesel (70 PS)
Location: Azores, Portugal
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Post

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