Roof issue investigation

If you need help with your C3 Pluriel, that seems specific to the Pluriel (like the roof), ask here. Engine and Transmission problem must be asked in the relevant topic for the problem. The Pluriel shares the same Engine, Gearbox, Brakes and Transmission as the other C3 models (see above for the correct section).
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

Well I used to own a 2004 Pluriel 6 years ago for 4 years, great car cheap to run leaked a little but then you can't have everything. Daughter is 17 this year and when looking for a car we stumbled on a 2006 Cote D'azur, 58K miles one owner from new with service history, One problem roof and boot not working. I rang the deal who had serviced it and they confirmed it had had 6 problem in 2013 with the roof and had been fitted with new cables, new motor, new hinges and hatch alignment. Rang the seller who was a small dealer who had the car sold when the roof stopped working. He had purchased a second-hand glass hatch with the motors, cables etc but his garage change the motor and still no joy, His garage then turn around and said they were not electricians and gave up.
When i went to see the car the rear hatch was stripped and the boot full of spare parts and the glass hatch on the back seat. I drove it back the 230miles home and it ran like a dream (very Noisy as roof not 100% closed).
I tried the roof to find it operated but only on one side and then jammed, I have striped the motor out and manually operated the roof which is stiff but moves, i found that the motor was only fixed by two mounts the third was snapped and missing with a fabricated (Badly) metal bracket trying to but pressure on the missing mount.
So on checking the spare glass hatch you guessed it not one but two mounts are missing. So the plan. to cut out the good mount on the spare hatch and glue this in on the one fitted (all plastic with glass behind). This should ex cert even pressure from the motor to the driving wheel and cables and with any luck the roof should work.
Questions:-
1) what grease should be used on the cables to make the operation smoother ( white grease)?
2) How can i reset the roof ECU when I'm ready as i think the boot is locked out if the ECU is unsure where the roof is?
3) is there any adjustment for the glass hatch or bottom of the boot as the hatch is catching the lower part of the boot at present. I have found some on the hinges of the hatch to the body but not looked at the lower section yet?

I will try and upload some photo's as i have learn a lot so far and a picture tells a thousand words. I'm sure I will have questions as I progress. :roll:
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2617
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 147 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Hi mogman
mogman wrote:1) what grease should be used on the cables to make the operation smoother ( white grease)?
Yes, white lithium grease (ebay) is a very good choice for runners, hinges and cables.


mogman wrote:2) How can i reset the roof ECU when I'm ready as i think the boot is locked out if the ECU is unsure where the roof is?
You can reset the BSI, which should be enough to reinitialse the other ECUs.
citroen-c3-tips/how-to-reset-the-bsi-on ... 3-t69.html
mogman wrote:I will try and upload some photo's as i have learn a lot so far and a picture tells a thousand words
Please do.

There are some great pictures and a great guide to the pluriel 8484.C2 broken hinge HERE which is worth a look at for pluriel roof problems.
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

Thanks for the Information, This is great, I will take some photo's and upload ( Photo Bucket) ?
Do you know if the Radio's have security codes before i disconnect the battery?
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

Here are some photo's as promised.
The first one shows the snapped mount to the left of the cables.
Pluriel roof drive cables snapped mount
Pluriel roof drive cables snapped mount
This one shows the metal bracket someone had tried to mount to fix the issue.
Temporary repair to the Pluriel roof drive
Temporary repair to the Pluriel roof drive
This shows the damage they did in trying to mount the bracket - Butchers springs to mind.
Damage done to plastic pluriel roof drive unit
Damage done to plastic pluriel roof drive unit
This show the mounts on my spare screen, the one on the left is the one i need but the ones on the right on this one have snapped off!
Pluriel roof motor drive mounting damaged
Pluriel roof motor drive mounting damaged
General one showing the cables and how they run through the hinges (these are the spare one which came with the car)
Pluriel roof drive cables on on each side - spares
Pluriel roof drive cables on on each side - spares
The boot full of bits, Spare motor etc etc
Pluriel roof parts in the boot, spare motors for repair
Pluriel roof parts in the boot, spare motors for repair
The other spare cable
Pluriel Roof Drive Cable and Runner Repair Parts
Pluriel Roof Drive Cable and Runner Repair Parts
This shows the solenoid's and micro switches, Four noted so far to tell the ECU the position of the hinges and boot lid.
This shows the solenoid's and micro switches, Four noted so far to tell the ECU the position of the hinges and boot lid.
This shows the solenoid's and micro switches, Four noted so far to tell the ECU the position of the hinges and boot lid.
This shows the spare part which sits over the image one and then the motor sits over this the small wheel is what drives the cables.
Pluriel roof drive cable gear parts
Pluriel roof drive cable gear parts
Another view with the wheel shown were it sits
Pluriel roof drive cable gear parts shown in operating position
Pluriel roof drive cable gear parts shown in operating position
The motor would site as shown above the plate , note the three fixings, mind was only fixed by two!.
Citroen Pluriel roof motor removed from car
Citroen Pluriel roof motor removed from car
The lower boot catching the hatch starting to rust as the paint has all gone.
Pluriel lower boot catching the hatch starting to rust as the paint has all gone.
Pluriel lower boot catching the hatch starting to rust as the paint has all gone.
The marks on the hatch showing the contact point.
witness marks on pluriel roof/boot where it was rubbing
witness marks on pluriel roof/boot where it was rubbing
Solenoid which opens the hatch one on the left and one on the right
pluriel boot solenoid which opens the hatch one on the left and one on the right
pluriel boot solenoid which opens the hatch one on the left and one on the right
The ECU sits in the middle.
Citroen roof ECU and solenoids. ECU sits in the middle.
Citroen roof ECU and solenoids. ECU sits in the middle.
Hope this helps shows the set up inside that little glass hatch. Wish me luck in getting it all to work again! :)
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2617
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 147 times
Been thanked: 88 times

mogman wrote:Thanks for the Information, This is great, I will take some photo's and upload ( Photo Bucket) ?
Do you know if the Radio's have security codes before i disconnect the battery?
Don't worry about the radio. It will be fine

You can also upload images directly to the forum.

Thank you for the pictures.


Would you say that the cables have jammed up or become difficult to move?

Causing excessive force transmitted from the motor to the part that was the weakest - the plastic brackets, rather than the intended steel cables and the roof?
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2617
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 147 times
Been thanked: 88 times

and good luck getting it all back together and working :D
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

From that point of view i would say you are right.
I have manually tried the roof now the motor is out and its very stiff, managed to push all the way onto the hatch and back but was not easy or smooth as i would have thought it should be. That little motor has its work cut out and being mounted on three Plastic mounts the torque required could break the weakest link.
How often do they recommend the roof is greased? 6 Monthly?
The car is 2006 and didn't have any issue until 2013, the dealer replaced the motor and i hope they didn't try and carry out the repair with the metal bracket, Its got made in Germany and a VW logo stamped on it!
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2617
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 11:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 147 timesEzoicreport this ad
Been thanked: 88 times

mogman wrote:How often do they recommend the roof is greased? 6 Monthly?
I don't have access to the pluriel maintenance schedule from Citroen as it doesn't appear on the standard C3 schedule. But, I would expect it to be something like every 2 years or 40 000miles or longer.
mogman wrote: Its got made in Germany and a VW logo stamped on it!
This may be encouraging. If Citroen bought in VW technology for the roof project, you may find parts from some of the VW models fit the pluriel. This opens up more parts bins to choose from.
mogman wrote:I have manually tried the roof now the motor is out and its very stiff, managed to push all the way onto the hatch and back but was not easy or smooth as i would have thought it should be. That little motor has its work cut out and being mounted on three Plastic mounts the torque required could break the weakest link
So if this is the only fault, getting replacement brackets etc and reconditioning the runner cables may be enough to get the pluriel roof working again?
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

attacked the car again this afternoon,
Replaced oil, oil filter, air filter, cabin filter, replaced spark plugs, flush and changed the coolant and replaced the rear exhaust bracket.
Then onto the roof.
Cut the mount of the spare rear hatch as below,
Cut the mount of the spare pluriel rear hatch as below,
Cut the mount of the spare pluriel rear hatch as below,
This is the bit I need
This is the bit I need to repair the pluriel roof motor mounting.
This is the bit I need to repair the pluriel roof motor mounting.
This was the tool of choice, Dremmel with cutting blade.
Dremel tool for cutting plastics
Dremel tool for cutting plastics
Then cut the same hole in the hatch fitted to the car,
damaged and rusty parts removed
damaged and rusty parts removed
Then clean this up with some white spirits,
clean area with solvents to hep the glue work
clean area with solvents to hep the glue work
Then this was the glue I went for Plastic Fusion and quick drying in 10 mins but take a full 24hr to fully cure.
plastic fusion
plastic fusion
This it the part in and glued, looks a mess but wanted to build up the glue over the piece to try and make it as strong as possible.
fitted and greased up, ready to go
fitted and greased up, ready to go
See what it look like in a day or two and then start to but it all back together. :)
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
My Name: mogman

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:47 pm
Model: C3 Pluriel - with or without roof
Year: 2006 (06)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 58000
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Location: Devon

Well that all failed!

The mount just snapped again, so tried two different solvents but then the right hand mount failed. So purchased a second hand glass hatch off ebay for £85.00 with three good mounts, Transferred the whole roof over and all the electrics to the new hatch, Purchased two new cables and the drive wheel kit, Had the roof reset by Citroen and away she when. All working now!. To transfer it all was not as bad as i first thought, its heavy but by taking it back onto the rear screen and placing a piece of wood across the boot, Fold the rear seats down and work from inside you can work the whole roof by hand with a large flat screw driver, Make sure the cables are level by driving them in and out by hand and if there are not level, remove the motor and drive wheel and try again once level attach the roof on the front sliders. I drove the whole thing to the front by hand to check every thing was alright before connecting the electrics.
You can reset the roof by pressing the button for 30 secs once closed, but this didn't work for me and i had to go to the dealer.

Hope this helps someone.
Thanks for your time

Chris
Devon,
VW Beetle, Morgan ZVHT, VW t25 Subaru engine, Cactus Flair 1.6HDIBlue, Pluriel cote D'azur
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