staionary power steering is turning to Off side, no power steering when turning near side

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My Name: cvloenen

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
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Hi all, a problem has developed with the power steering on our 14Hdi 16v, when staionary or at low speed the power steering is turning to Off side. There is no power steering when turning near side. Im thinking of replaceing the complete steering rack, and would welcome any thoughts on the fault.
Also since i might be removing the rack can anyone advice on systematic method to do this. It looks pretty much inaccessible and that the lower subframe might need to come of to get the rack out?


Thanks
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My Name: C3driver52

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cvloenen wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:57 pm Hi all, a problem has developed with the power steering on our 14Hdi 16v, when staionary or at low speed the power steering is turning to Off side. There is no power steering when turning near side. Im thinking of replaceing the complete steering rack, and would welcome any thoughts on the fault.
Also since i might be removing the rack can anyone advice on systematic method to do this. It looks pretty much inaccessible and that the lower subframe might need to come of to get the rack out?


Thanks
Hi

The ePAS is computer controlled, have you changed the ePAS ECU with an ebay one first? If you can pick one up cheap enough it may prove to try that first? Then there is the motor....


Citroen would change both at this point :shock:

But you have the ECU and the motor rather than the actual rack as ePAS faults to diagnose.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
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I will freely admit my experience with the power steering is limited. So I do not answer this question as an "expert".

OK. From what I know about the torque transducer that senses the force required to turn the steering wheel, it is the same physical component that senses clockwise and counter clockwise torque. So if it failed, you would loose power in both directions. The DC torque assistance motor is the same (only one component doing both directions). These are the only components in the steering rack that might fail (and cause these symptoms). So given your symptoms, I don't think it's the rack at fault. My best guess is either the control module or a physical problem with the front suspension geometry. The electric steering system is a Japanese made component and is VERY reliable.
For my money I would check the suspension and steering for some sort of physical anomaly or replace the steering control module in the battery box. One or more of the motor driver transistors in the control module may have gone.

EDIT: D'OH! I should read peoples posts before responding!!! I have seen this "steering wheel turns by itself" on this forum before but I don't remember a resolution to it...sorry. As C3driver said, the steering module is easy and (relatively) cheap to replace. If the steering wheel is turning while the car is not moving then it's unlikely to be a physical problem with the suspension.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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My Name: cvloenen

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
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Hi all, I apologise first that I have to start a new post on this topic. Unfortunately for some reason the website doesnt allow me to post replies on the same topic I started earlier? If anyone can help with that please get in touch.

So, my steering system seems more heavily powered on right turn. Ive changed the Module and theres no difference, so its likley to be the electrics in the steering rack assembly I guess. When stationary the steering has right turn power and its turning on its own. It may be the motor or the sensors I guess. I wish to sorce a 2nd hand Power steering rack complete but can not get the part number, dealer refuses to give it out because I wont be buying new from them. Can anyone help identify which rack and motor assemnbly I need? Car is C3 1.4HDI 16v ,68 Bhp, 2002, reg NL52GYJ.

When I get a new system I may first try swapping the motor first, looks like I can access and remove the motor without taking rack and subframe of. Does anyone know if I need to set things up and align motor with anything specific, or can I just simply remove it and replace it? Similary if I end up replacing the complete rack, is there anything specific I need to do to make sure everything works as it should, or just fit it?

thanks
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
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Mileage: 80000
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DPF: No
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The computer system that the Citroen /Peugeot network uses occasionally has the manufacturers part number listed. The part numbers that PSA use are of no use to anyone but PSA!

If you list your VIN, Arfur might determine if Service Box lists the manufacturers part number for the relevant parts.

There are different rack, motor and module part numbers and there can be differences between them. For example the steering rack for the C2 versions may have different power assistance at lower speed because its a lighter vehicle. The action of the rack itself may be different for quicker response of the steering. The action of the power assistance for the C3 sedan and the Pluriel may be different because of the different handling characteristics of car. But... I'm not sure. However apart from physical differences, I don't think most drivers could tell (or care about) the difference in response of the electric systems or the steering racks in general.

Sometimes part numbers only reflect different production revisions but are still backward and forward compatible. Unfortunately it's difficult to find out this information.

If you obtain a rack from the breakers, I would try to obtain it from the closest model practical. C2's are physically the same and should fit but may not have the same part numbers because of the above reasons.

It would be interesting to see which component is causing the fault. The motor can be separated from the rack. Meaning the motor and rack can be tested separately. I would leave the motor attached to the car and change the rack. In this case you would be changing the torque transducer (in my opinion the next most likely culprit). However, the next most easy part to change is the motor! Remember, changing the rack may change the steering geometry. The motor is literally just a motor. It has a splined shaft that can turn 360 degrees just like a regular motor. The motor mounts one way but it's obvious which way it goes. Don't remove the torque transducer and input shaft assembly from the steering rack. You may put the steering wheel-to-road wheel position out of alignment!

When you replaced the module, was it the same part number? If it was a different part number, did it make any difference (that you could tell)?
My Name: cvloenen

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Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 155000
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Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
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Ozvtr wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:59 am The computer system that the Citroen /Peugeot network uses occasionally has the manufacturers part number listed. The part numbers that PSA use are of no use to anyone but PSA!

If you list your VIN, Arfur might determine if Service Box lists the manufacturers part number for the relevant parts.

There are different rack, motor and module part numbers and there can be differences between them. For example the steering rack for the C2 versions may have different power assistance at lower speed because its a lighter vehicle. The action of the rack itself may be different for quicker response of the steering. The action of the power assistance for the C3 sedan and the Pluriel may be different because of the different handling characteristics of car. But... I'm not sure. However apart from physical differences, I don't think most drivers could tell (or care about) the difference in response of the electric systems or the steering racks in general.

Sometimes part numbers only reflect different production revisions but are still backward and forward compatible. Unfortunately it's difficult to find out this information.

If you obtain a rack from the breakers, I would try to obtain it from the closest model practical. C2's are physically the same and should fit but may not have the same part numbers because of the above reasons.

It would be interesting to see which component is causing the fault. The motor can be separated from the rack. Meaning the motor and rack can be tested separately. I would leave the motor attached to the car and change the rack. In this case you would be changing the torque transducer (in my opinion the next most likely culprit). However, the next most easy part to change is the motor! Remember, changing the rack may change the steering geometry. The motor is literally just a motor. It has a splined shaft that can turn 360 degrees just like a regular motor. The motor mounts one way but it's obvious which way it goes. Don't remove the torque transducer and input shaft assembly from the steering rack. You may put the steering wheel-to-road wheel position out of alignment!

When you replaced the module, was it the same part number? If it was a different part number, did it make any difference (that you could tell)?
The module I changed had same part number so was exact same component. I just got a complete 2nd hand rack and motor today so hopefully can change it soon.
As the motor does work, then the problem probably lies with the torque transducer.
Any tips on changing the Rack? I have a Haynes Manual that says bottom subframe need to come of? Im just wandering if it can be done without all that rigmarole? Possibly even getting it in and secured from under the bonnet working rond back of engine?
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My Name: Ozvtr

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cvloenen wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:19 pm
Any tips on changing the Rack? I have a Haynes Manual that says bottom subframe need to come of? Im just wandering if it can be done without all that rigmarole? Possibly even getting it in and secured from under the bonnet working rond back of engine?
Sorry, don't know. To my knowledge I haven't seen anyone on here remove the rack. The control arms, but not the rack.
I think the problem is going to be how to remove the rack from the steering column? You would either have to pull the steering column out then the rack or remove the sub frame so the rack can come off the column.
My Name: cvloenen

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
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Hi, Ive purchased a used rack from a breaker and fitted it today, should get everything back together tomorrow and try it out.
Replacing the rack is fairly easy apart from the stupid torx bolts holding on the subframe. The front subframe torx bolts are an absolute rubbish idea. If they have not been removed for a few years they will never unscrew! Bolt and nut will be rusted solid and getting in with a cutting disc is almost impossible unless you cut through a little of the subframe (which is probably ok, and weld it up afterwards). Luckily I managed to break bolts on mine, so got them free.
Procedure: Disconnect steering electrics from Steering ECU. Steering centered. From inside the car remove pinch bolt on steering column and lift of joint. Roadwheels off, steering ball joint off, bottom ball joint off hub, bottom link of roll bar, strengthening bar under subframe off, gearbox underside mount off, disconnect exhaust under engine, place jack under subframe to hold and lower after its freed, undue four subframe torx female 16 on underside, lower subframe with rack attached, undue two rack securing nuts, fit new rack and fitting in order of reverse removal basically.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Wow. That's not what I would call "fairly easy". LOL!
Would it be possible to just replace the torque transducer and leave the rack in place? Re-aligning the steering wheel and road wheels would be a pain, but less painful? Does the input shaft to the rack/transducer go through the firewall? Or does the lower part of the steering column go through the fire wall?
So you lifted the steering column off the steering rack input shaft before removing the rack( you said "lift off joint")? Did that require removing any bolts/supports to the column?

I hope it works.
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