Picasso - Air conditioning requires recharging

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My Name: Canoepr

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:57 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2015 (15)
Engine Size: 1.6 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 28000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: EGS - electronic 6 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

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Just had a disappointing service in a small local garrage near Oxford some of the items have been missed... Air conditioning requires recharge
My Name: routemaster1

C3 Master
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:32 pm
Model: C3 2017-on. The new C3
Year: 2019 (19)
Engine Size: 1.2
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 300
Trim Level: Flair
Gearbox: Manual 6 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: EB2DT-EB2ADT PureTech 3-Cylinder (110 PS)
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Canoepr wrote:Just had a disappointing service in a small local garrage near Oxford some of the items have been missed... Air conditioning requires recharge

The type of aircon fluid used is the new 'greener' CFC which is very expensive. If you are expecting to pay £40-£50 you are in for a shock. I doubt if you will get it done for less than £100. Citroen will charge £199, and an agent claimed that the fluid costs £99 before their labour/mark-up. Also it may be difficult to find a garage that can actually refill with the new CFC.
My Name: routemaster1

C3 Master
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:32 pm
Model: C3 2017-on. The new C3
Year: 2019 (19)
Engine Size: 1.2
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 300
Trim Level: Flair
Gearbox: Manual 6 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: EB2DT-EB2ADT PureTech 3-Cylinder (110 PS)
Been thanked: 63 times

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routemaster1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:50 pm The type of aircon fluid used is the new 'greener' CFC which is very expensive. If you are expecting to pay £40-£50 you are in for a shock. I doubt if you will get it done for less than £100. Citroen will charge £199, and an agent claimed that the fluid costs £99 before their labour/mark-up. Also it may be difficult to find a garage that can actually refill with the new CFC.
EDIT: This is true for a similar age C4 Picasso, and I was told it was true for our 2016 C3, but it is possible that a 2015 C Picasso could still use the older, cheaper fluid.
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Canoepr wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:05 pm Air conditioning requires recharge .
Not to put too fine a point on it but, how do you know? Does it hiss or gurgle when you turn the air con on? Compressor doesn't cut in? Not cold?

Auto air conditioning does not require "servicing". If you believe the aircon is working fine, LEAVE IT ALONE! The technicians can only tell you if it's working within spec or not. If not, the reason that the system is not working correctly must be rectified BEFORE the system is "re-gassed". It is illegal to re-gas a system that is known to leak (unless its for diagnostic reasons)! If anyone tells you the aircon needs servicing I.E. gas or oil change, they are a fool. Sure, get the temp, cabin filter and gas pressure checked but be aware, you are paying someone to tell you there is nothing wrong with your system or there IS something wrong with your system and it needs to be fixed $$$$. NO PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE CAN (OR SHOULD) BE PERFORMED ON AN AIRCON SYSTEM!!
Sorry but I don't like to see people ripped off.
If your aircon is not working correctly it needs to be repaired not just re-gassed, sorry.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 252 times

Post

routemaster1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:51 pm
routemaster1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:50 pm The type of aircon fluid used is the new 'greener' CFC which is very expensive. If you are expecting to pay £40-£50 you are in for a shock. I doubt if you will get it done for less than £100. Citroen will charge £199, and an agent claimed that the fluid costs £99 before their labour/mark-up. Also it may be difficult to find a garage that can actually refill with the new CFC.
EDIT: This is true for a similar age C4 Picasso, and I was told it was true for our 2016 C3, but it is possible that a 2015 C Picasso could still use the older, cheaper fluid.
CFC's (ChloroFluoroCarbons) are banned in most of the world. The CFC refrigerant used in car air conditioning was (still is in some places) R12 or Dichlorodifluoromethane, but it was phased out in the early 90's. You can still buy it over the counter in the US (but I wont go into why).
It was replaced by Tetrafluoroethane or R134a. More than 99% of the car air conditioning systems in the world currently run on R134a.
The latest craze is R1234yf. Hydrofluoroolefin (R1234yf) WAS slated to replace R134a but most car manufacturers refuse to build systems to use R1234yf. It is more flammable than R134a and is HIDEOUSLY expensive!!! They claim, in the big scheme of things, there is no significant advantage to going to R1234yf over R134a. There are a VERY rare number of cars manufactured using this refrigerant.
Having said that, YOU need to check what refrigerant is specified for your car's air conditioning system.
In Europe it is illegal to install a refrigerant in a system other than the type specified by the manufacturer!! So if the manufacturer put R134a in the system on the production line, then R134a must be used for subsequent repairs to the system.
The government doesn't [email protected]#k around with this stuff as the fines are ASTRONOMICAL!! If you think the government is not taking climate change seriously, have a look at the fines for this sh t!!!
My Name: Canoepr

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:57 pm
Model: C3 Picasso
Year: 2015 (15)
Engine Size: 1.6 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 28000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: EGS - electronic 6 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Ozvtr wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:56 am
routemaster1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:51 pm
routemaster1 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:50 pm The type of aircon fluid used is the new 'greener' CFC which is very expensive. If you are expecting to pay £40-£50 you are in for a shock. I doubt if you will get it done for less than £100. Citroen will charge £199, and an agent claimed that the fluid costs £99 before their labour/mark-up. Also it may be difficult to find a garage that can actually refill with the new CFC.
EDIT: This is true for a similar age C4 Picasso, and I was told it was true for our 2016 C3, but it is possible that a 2015 C Picasso could still use the older, cheaper fluid.
CFC's (ChloroFluoroCarbons) are band in most of the world. The CFC refrigerant used in car air conditioning was (still is in some places) R12 or Dichlorodifluoromethane, but it was phased out in the early 90's. You can still buy it over the counter in the US (but I wont go into why).
It was replaced by Tetrafluoroethane or R134a. More than 99% of the car air conditioning systems in the world currently run on R134a.
The latest craze is R1234yf. Hydrofluoroolefin (R1234yf) WAS slated to replace R134a but most car manufacturers refuse to build systems to use R1234yf. It is more flammable than R134a and is HIDEOUSLY expensive!!! They claim, in the big scheme of things, there is no significant advantage to going to R1234yf over R134a. There are a VERY rare number of cars manufactured using this refrigerant.
Having said that, YOU need to check what refrigerant is specified for your car's air conditioning system.
In Europe it is illegal to install a refrigerant in a system other than the type specified by the manufacturer!! So if the manufacturer put R134a in the system on the production line, then R134a must be used for subsequent repairs to the system.
The government doesn't [email protected]#k around with this stuff as the fines are ASTRONOMICAL!! If you think the government is not taking climate change seriously, have a look at the fines for this sh!t!!!
I am having a problem with the aircon on my car. Its a 2015 C4 Picasso, and every year without fail the aircon has failed in the spring. Every time they check the system over, it passes all of the tests, there is no sign of the leak detecting dye, but when spring comes it is empty. One year they replaced the compressor under warranty, but now they always find no fault. When I tried to book it in and explain the long running saga to the receptionist he actually told me "in my experience the aircon fluid only lasts a year". I'm sorry to say I got angry at that point and shouted at him.(Note On or 2 year old C3 he tried to upsell ne an aircon service for £200). So from what is said above, can I suggest to them that it would be illegal for them to test and refill the system again without actually finding the fault?
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 252 times

Post

routemaster1 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:32 am So from what is said above, can I suggest to them that it would be illegal for them to test and refill the system again without actually finding the fault?
If you can get them to admit the gas is leaking out...yes.

Under the Environment Act 1995 (UK) it is illegal to knowingly discharge high GWP (Global Warming Potential) gasses into the atmosphere. Unless its for fault finding purposes and even then minimal amounts.

You can contact the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... al-affairs and see what they say.
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