Front Wiper Failure

Questions not related to the fuel type, like Manual Gearbox, Body Work, Lights, Interior trim and Seats, Steering, Brakes, Beeping, Wheels and Tyres to be asked in this topic only.

Audio has its own section - see further down the page.

Please provide as much information as you think may be relevant like recent work on the car and you can attach photographs directly to your topic using the form below the text box.
Forum rules
One question per topic.
No Engine questions
Think: Manual Gearbox, Seats, Bodywork, Lighting, Interior, A/C, Heater, Wheels, Steering, Brakes, Tyres and Suspension
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Hi All

Been looking through this forum, found some answers, tried some of the suggestions and no further forward. Here's my problem.

(I apologise now if some of it is worded wrong, I'm not the car bod, my brother is, I mostly stand around holding the torch or reading forum posts out to him :D )

Last week, pulled my wash/wipers (whilst going 70 down dual carriageway!) and the spray came out, but the wipers didn't move. They'd been fine last time I tried, which would only have been a few days earlier.

I changed the fuse (the limit of my own knowledge), still nothing. So today, took car to brothers, who tried:

- Checking that the fuse was okay. It was.
- Checking for a fault code with his reader (can't remember the make, it's a yellow unit, and none of the French makes seem to be in their in their own right) - no codes.
- Tested wiper motor off the car. It works.
- Tested the yellow plug that goes into the motor. Position 1 is earth, Pos 2 had power, Pos 3 empty hole, Pos 4 & 5 (orange and pink wires) - nothing. Same result with and without fuse in (which is what we expected from what we had read here that the wiper unit always has a live feed so it can park? Or is it so it can report back that they're parked?)
- Put something it to check there was power going through the fuse holder. Yes.

When you move the stalk, you can here a quiet click under the bonnet, coming from the fuse box area, in all positions (I think)

Soft reset BSI (one time) using this guide: https://citroenc3owners.com/citroen-c3-t ... 3-t69.html

Still nothing.


From reading the posts in the forum, I am still unsure what to do next. I think I've read all relevant posts, but I seem to be going round in circles.

If it's the relays, why can we hear a clicking noise? Do we replace the top fuse box (about £25 second on Ebay)? Do we need to check the mega fuses?

Any other suggestions as to what to do next?

I've not had this car a year yet, and I've had more problems with this than I ever had with the previous car, a 98 Clio. Admittedly some wear/tear or crap road conditions (exhaust, coil springs) but in less than ten months there's also been headlight, indicator, the ECU light came on after a random overheat (and there's been several random overheats) - it just feels like I've ended up with a bit of a lemon and don't want to spend a fortune replacing the wrong parts. However, need to have wipers and need to not be without car for too long either!

Your help is very much appreciated.
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

One thing I forgot to ask is if there is any way of telling if it's the comms unit or the fuse box/relays?

Don't think it's a mega-fuse as surely, something else would not be working alongside it.

Thanks in advance, sorry to ask a question that has been asked before, but all the posts I can find are either not quite the same (ie turned out to be the motor, don't make a click noise at fuse box) or seem unresolved?
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 144 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Post

Hi Dawn, welcome to the forum.
Dawn wrote:- Checking for a fault code with his reader (can't remember the make, it's a yellow unit, and none of the French makes seem to be in their in their own right) - no codes.
You won't get a code from a code reader for a wiper fault.
Dawn wrote: Any other suggestions as to what to do next?
I would connect up lexia/diagbox to the car to check if its a COM2000 or BSI/BSM problem.

You have tested the motor already and found it to be OK, which is one job that needed doing.

Is there sufficient cleaning solution in the washer bottle?

You say you checked a fuse, but you didn't say which one. I would check all the ones in the glove box and all the ones in the engine bay fuse box. Quite a few are shown on the diagram so it would be best to check them all.
Dawn wrote:and don't want to spend a fortune replacing the wrong parts.

Which is why Lexia is so useful at diagnosing as much as possible before buying parts.
Dawn wrote:One thing I forgot to ask is if there is any way of telling if it's the comms unit or the fuse box/relays?
COM2000 can be tested with Lexia.
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Hi C3CAR

Thanks for your response.

We tried the code reader after reading over the weekend on the forum it was a suggestion, but it was only as I looked deeper today that I realised not all code readers would work. The one he has doesn't even list the three main french cars...

The fuse I tried was the one indicated both in my driver's handbook and on here, it's F17 - definitely the one that says front wipers.

I did check glove box fuse F14 yesterday is it's described in my handbook as being for steering wheel switches. I guess it's okay as removing resulted in having the clock reset!

Today, looking on here, it says F4 in the glove box is also for steering wheel switches (it doesn't say this in my handbook, which was why I didn't try it yesterday) - that disconnected my aftermarket radio, so I guess that also works...

I haven't checked the washer bottle, but that was when I first discovered the problem. Doing 70mph on the A52 in the low evening sun, dirty windscreen from an earlier rain shower when indoors, water sprayed all over the windscreen, but no wipers.... and it was still spraying yesterday too.

Must admit I haven't checked all the fuses, but all the ones that sound relevant have been checked. I havne't checked the wash pump fuses, or the rear wash/wipe fuses but they all work anyway...

Those Lexia dianostics look useful, but I was hoping to avoid spending another £70 on this car unless I *have* to. Are they only good for Peugot/Citroen, because chances are I won't ever buy another Citroen, and the way it's going, I shan't be keeping this car if I can afford to exchange.

It is actually booked into the place I bought it from, who offer a lifetime labour warranty for as long as you're the keeper of the car you bought from them, but they are always busy, and it's end of next week before they can fit me in. So meanwhile, we will have to do some temporary fix.

I'll look at the prices of Lexias, but I also need a manual, and might end up spending some money on whatever part is needed, plus MOT is due in about seven weeks, so reluctant to spend *all* my money just yet :D :D

Are there any visual checks for Comms units, or code only?

Thanks so much
User avatar
My Name: C3CAR

Guru
Posts: 2610
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:01 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (02)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 140000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 144 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Post

Dawn wrote:Those Lexia dianostics look useful, but I was hoping to avoid spending another £70 on this car unless I *have* to. Are they only good for Peugot/Citroen, because chances are I won't ever buy another Citroen, and the way it's going, I shan't be keeping this car if I can afford to exchange.
Citroen/Peugeot only. You can sell it with the car or sell it on ebay when you p/x the car.
Dawn wrote:Are there any visual checks for Comms units, or code only?
Its not just a code, lexia can read signals from the stalks and switches and send signals to the computer pretending to be various switches. The only other test is to substitute it. Have a look at what's inside the COM2000 and how to remove it.
Dawn wrote:The fuse I tried was the one indicated both in my driver's handbook and on here, it's F17 - definitely the one that says front wipers.
Oh well, its always worth checking the easy stuff first.
Dawn wrote:we will have to do some temporary fix.
If you could work out the motor connections, a quick bit of wiring and a switch on the dashboard may be enough to operate the wipers?
Dawn wrote:I haven't checked the washer bottle, but that was when I first discovered the problem. Doing 70mph on the A52 in the low evening sun, dirty windscreen from an earlier rain shower when indoors, water sprayed all over the windscreen, but no wipers.... and it was still spraying yesterday too.
The washer bottle level sensor is shown connected to a computer on the diagram. I don't know how it affects the operation of the wipers though :( or even if its fitted to all models :?:
Dawn wrote:but I also need a manual
Haynes Manual or user manual?
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Dawn wrote:
Those Lexia dianostics look useful, but I was hoping to avoid spending another £70 on this car unless I *have* to. Are they only good for Peugot/Citroen, because chances are I won't ever buy another Citroen, and the way it's going, I shan't be keeping this car if I can afford to exchange.

Citroen/Peugeot only. You can sell it with the car or sell it on ebay when you p/x the car.
Good point I guess :D
Its not just a code, lexia can read signals from the stalks and switches and send signals to the computer pretending to be various switches. The only other test is to substitute it. Have a look at what's inside the COM2000 and how to remove it.
I'll take a look at those links, ta - and i have just remembered there is a Peugot/Citroen specialist locally, although not a dealer, so I might go and ask him how much it would cost, I presume he will have the suitable bit of kit.
If you could work out the motor connections, a quick bit of wiring and a switch on the dashboard may be enough to operate the wipers?
Brother can work out the wiring and switches that might be needed, just need to work out how to get through to the dashboard.
The washer bottle level sensor is shown connected to a computer on the diagram. I don't know how it affects the operation of the wipers though :( or even if its fitted to all models :?:
I will check the levels just in case


It's a Haynes manual I need to get, the car came with the drivers manual
My Name: Missing Lincs

Moderator
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:29 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: Petrol
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Post

Dawn wrote:When you move the stalk, you can here a quiet click under the bonnet, coming from the fuse box area, in all positions (I think)
That could be the wiper relay operating, if it is then the relay itself could be faulty. I'm not sure if the relay is changeable, I'll try to find out unless someone else knows or can find out first?
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence and pretend you never tried :lol:
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Thanks Missinglincs, much appreciated.

IF it is this, and it's not replaceable, does anybody know if it's part of the BSM fusebox top layer? Looking around on the internet, it looks as though the engine bay fuse box is fairly deep, and has a top tray with the fuses on with (I think?) a layer of mega fuses underneath.

Would the relay be on this top layer? I've seen the same board (same T code, although the end letter changes, dunno if that's relevant) for about £25 on Ebay, but it does look as though it's only the top half.

Hope I am making sense!

This is an example on Ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C3-C2 ... 0973450494
Attachments
IMG_2921.JPG
My Name: Missing Lincs

Moderator
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:29 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: Petrol
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: United Kingdom
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Post

I'd say you need a bit more research and fault finding before replacing anything. Fault finding by replacing parts can get expensive.
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all the evidence and pretend you never tried :lol:
My Name: Dawn

Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:40 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 97000
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)

Post

Missing Lincs wrote:I'd say you need a bit more research and fault finding before replacing anything. Fault finding by replacing parts can get expensive.
Does asking questions on this forum count as fault finding :D

No, I generally don't go down the route of replacing parts in the hope that something might work, unless it's looking pretty sure that it's something specific. However, as I don't have a Lexia diagnostic tool either....

Unfortunately, it still looks as though this could be the relays, or the comms unit, or even something else.... (for examples, the wires that go to the yellow plug that fits onto the motor, they look as though they've been meddled with previously, as they are partly uncovered - however as there is no power on either of these, I am assuming it's something else, it would surely be a random coincidence for it to be *both* wires breaking - if I am correct in undertanding that one wire feeds slow speed, and one feeds fast?)

This bit I mean, apparently no power at the peach or orange cable in the end of this socket.
Attachments
IMG_2919.JPG
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post