Picasso Auto feels like its drifting in neutral, no response from accel. pedal,

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My Name: jmmj

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Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:09 am
Model: Other
Year: 2014 (14)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 37089
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD
Engine name: TU5 16-valve (110 PS)
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Hey folks,

I have a 2013/14 C3 Picasso variant, the Aircross. It has a 1.6 16v TU5 engine with automatic AL4 box and cruise control. Currently has 76,000 kms on it (-+ 43,000 miles). I recently got a diagbox setup to help diagnose an issue I’m having.

Over a year ago, we’d had an issue with the gear selector not wanting to move out of park, typical of the brake switch (4 pin). I took it out, mucked around with it, put it back and re adjusted the self adjusting plunger. Things went back to normal.

About 6 months ago a problem started coming up. I often drive changing the gears manually and on the painel ‘D’ is replaced by the number of the gear its in. When the problem happens the number disappears and the car looses power. It feels like its drifting in neutral, no response from accel. pedal, then 10-15 seconds later its back to normal. No flashing lights, no warning on dash. The frequency of this issue has been increasing and now a couple times the car will ‘be out’ for much longer. Changing gear, changing into park and back don’t offer any resolve, neither did turning the car on/off. In the middle of traffic I just had to wait for the transmission to come back and on these occasions the engine check light did come on. I always figured that this was going to be a selector/actuator problem… but the diagnostic codes seem to say otherwise.

Our car is a ‘flex’ fuel model, it runs on both pure ethanol or petrol, or a mix. Interestingly the problem is far worse if there is ethanol in the tank!?!? So we’ve only used petrol the last 5 months or so.

The engine bay is relatively clean, not leaks, its dusty, but not dirty. Never taken to by a water blaster.

So I got Diagbox hooked up, cleared the codes, drove it for a week and investigated what came back. What comes up is shown in the photos below.
IMG_20201127_232800791.jpg
IMG_20201127_232825198.jpg

I’m slowly getting my head around the software and investigating what it offers. Users c3car and Ozvtr have previously offered some advice but these options don’t appear (no proposed solutions), possibly as a result of the version I’m running?? (V7.76). I’ve been watching hours of youtube videos but nothing yet resembles my specific situation.

So I’ve ordered a new brake pedal switch, but I’m worried its much more than just that. As one of the codes is a communication error, I took off the connectors to the engine ECU, AL4 ECU, the AL4 itself, and a few fuses I thought might be relevant. All these connectors were clean, I sprayed some contact cleaner in there, and put them back on. I missed the plug for the selector/actuator though.

So where do I start?! Is the BSI reinitialising a the cause of the communication error?! I’ve observed some things in diagbox like the accel. pedal - which seems fine.

I continue to research each of these codes but if anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated!!

Cheers,

Mike
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Hi Mike

You may have old faults stored, ones that are no longer relevant.

Can you delete all the codes, all those that are not permanent.

Then drive the car and collect new codes as the fault appears.

Read the new faults and you can then look at just the most recent ones focus on them.

Post your screen shots of the latest codes and we can look at those.
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My Name: jmmj

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:09 am
Model: Other
Year: 2014 (14)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 37089
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD
Engine name: TU5 16-valve (110 PS)
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Cheers Arfur. Your right, i hadn't cleared all the codes! Just the ones i was worried about!

Will do so.

Cheers,
Mike
My Name: jmmj

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:09 am
Model: Other
Year: 2014 (14)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 37089
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD
Engine name: TU5 16-valve (110 PS)
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 1 time

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So i cleared all the fault codes.

The permanent brake switch code came back. So i finally found in lexia where i can monitor it inputs. Used this info to 'fix' the switch - the plunger wouldn't keep its position any longer so i put a dab of glue on it. Tested fine.

Cleared that fault, then went for a drive.

I usually drive like a granddad, because i am one! But this time i gave it a bit of snot and loads of gear changes under all usual sorts of circumstances. Drove for 20 minutes.

Hot off the lexia right now... and NO CODES have come back?!?! I looked into the log of fault codes and most of these had been popping up with some frequency for a good while. Too soon to tell maybe... but could 'communication errors' have really been because of a darn brake switch?!?!

Its being monitored.

Cheers!
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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As you know the brake switch has two sets of contacts. One set for the brake lights and one set going to the auto gearbox.
The set going to the gearbox is used for unlocking the park position of the selector and also used to tell the gearbox that you are braking so it can adjust its shift pattern. A worst case scenario is that you wont be able to get the selector out of park. It wont effect the coms. Those contacts are connected directly to the gearbox ECU. The contacts are also in an 'opposing pattern'. that is, if one set is closed the other is open and vice versa. Meaning, if one set changes the other should too. If one set doesn't change when the other does, the car knows there is a problem with the contacts.
jmmj wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:53 pm When the problem happens the number disappears and the car looses power.
This is concerning. I don't know why the digit would disappear (completely). If the BSI is 'told' the car has an auto box why would the selector digits disappear? Generally speaking, a gearbox fault brings up '*S' on the instrument cluster and a selector position fault causes the selected digit to flash. I cant understand why the digit would disappear! The gearbox should still run if it looses the CAN BUS. That is, communication with the rest of the car. The auto box has enough sensors to keep going. But for the gearbox ECU to go AWOL is just bizarre.
The gearbox ECU sits on a bracket right on the front of the gearbox. Have you pulled the plastic cover off and had a look at condition of the connector?
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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I am thinking the P2299 accelerator pedal fault might be causing the 'break down' and failure of the car to move.
However while the car is serviceable, tracking it down is going to be impossible.
You could try disconnecting the accelerator pedal and see if the digits for the auto selector disappear?
My Name: jmmj

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:09 am
Model: Other
Year: 2014 (14)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 37089
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD
Engine name: TU5 16-valve (110 PS)
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Ozvtr wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:20 pm
jmmj wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:53 pm When the problem happens the number disappears and the car looses power.
This is concerning. I don't know why the digit would disappear (completely). If the BSI is 'told' the car has an auto box why would the selector digits disappear? Generally speaking, a gearbox fault brings up '*S' on the instrument cluster and a selector position fault causes the selected digit to flash. I cant understand why the digit would disappear! The gearbox should still run if it looses the CAN BUS. That is, communication with the rest of the car. The auto box has enough sensors to keep going. But for the gearbox ECU to go AWOL is just bizarre.
The gearbox ECU sits on a bracket right on the front of the gearbox. Have you pulled the plastic cover off and had a look at condition of the connector?
Yeah, strange isn't it? You put your foot down on the accelerator and nothing happens, engine doesnt rev and its like the gearbox doesnt know what gear its in, but the car is kind of gliding along - maybe in 3rd, which would make sense, but no flashing lights. I searched and searched and didnt find anyone with similar problems.

I did have a look at the auto ECU. I took off the connector, had a look, very clean inside, no evidence of dirt or water. I sprayed the plug and socket with contact cleaner.

Well its been a few days now, we've used the car every day and NO ERRORS have come back!! Pretty happy about that, although i think its mighty strange. If it is in fact solved, i could only conclude that correcting the brake switch and cleaning all the connectors are responsible!

Cheers,

Mike
My Name: jmmj

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:09 am
Model: Other
Year: 2014 (14)
Engine Size: 1.6 (16v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 37089
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: LHD
Engine name: TU5 16-valve (110 PS)
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post

Ozvtr wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:49 pm I am thinking the P2299 accelerator pedal fault might be causing the 'break down' and failure of the car to move.
However while the car is serviceable, tracking it down is going to be impossible.
You could try disconnecting the accelerator pedal and see if the digits for the auto selector disappear?
Yeah thats a good idea Ozvtr!! I was actually thinking about 'restoring' the defective brake pedal state to see if it would cause all the rest of the problems that popped up.

Is it safe to disconnect the pedal while the car is on? (not driving of course!) The last thing i'd want to do is damage the ECU...

Thanks for the help!

-Mike
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My Name: Ozvtr

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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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jmmj wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:32 am
Is it safe to disconnect the pedal while the car is on? (not driving of course!) The last thing i'd want to do is damage the ECU...

-Mike
It wont harm anything but it will throw up an error while the plug is disconnected.
While the plug is disconnected it will be labeled a permanent fault in the fault log. When it's reconnected that fault will go to a temporary fault. At this point it may eventually disappear or stay logged as a temporary fault. It doesn't matter as you have a LEXIA to clear it anyway.
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