Hesitation at 60-70 km/hour

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My Name: NedL

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Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
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Hi, first time postingn, because nobody seems to have any clue what could be causing this.

The problem: the car drives perfectly at all times except between 60-70 km/hour. In that range it has a hesitation or surging, where it feels like it has a drop of power for a moment and then recovers.

Mechanic 1: had no idea, said he couldn't find what was causing it.

Mechanic 2: said it wasn't showing any codes, and that it didn't seem to be solenoids, but suggested it "might" be the torque converter.

Mechanic 3 (dealership): said it had the wrong size tires on, but resetting the ECU should resolve it. If not, might need to reset again.

Mechanic 4 (also dealership): said there was a fault in the gearbox and it needed replacing. Quoted $9k!

Mechanic 5: seriously doubted it is gearbox, thought throttle position sensor more likely, but couldn't say for sure.

So the upshot is, keep driving it until it gets bad enough that it throws up a code. That's not ideal because it's really bloody annoying to drive at present. Can anyone she'd any light on what could be causing this?
Thanks all.
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My Name: C3driver52

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NedL wrote:Hi, first time postingn, because nobody seems to have any clue what could be causing this.

The problem: the car drives perfectly at all times except between 60-70 km/hour. In that range it has a hesitation or surging, where it feels like it has a drop of power for a moment and then recovers.

Mechanic 1: had no idea, said he couldn't find what was causing it.

Mechanic 2: said it wasn't showing any codes, and that it didn't seem to be solenoids, but suggested it "might" be the torque converter.

Mechanic 3 (dealership): said it had the wrong size tires on, but resetting the ECU should resolve it. If not, might need to reset again.

Mechanic 4 (also dealership): said there was a fault in the gearbox and it needed replacing. Quoted $9k!

Mechanic 5: seriously doubted it is gearbox, thought throttle position sensor more likely, but couldn't say for sure.

So the upshot is, keep driving it until it gets bad enough that it throws up a code. That's not ideal because it's really bloody annoying to drive at present. Can anyone she'd any light on what could be causing this?
Thanks all.

Interesting that Mechanic 2 says torque converter. Is there the correct level of ATF fluid and is it the correct stuff for your gearbox.
There is a 'lock up' solenoid that is used to lock the engine to gearbox to improve economy at that sort of speed.

Mechanic 5, could be and the TPS is easy and cheap to swap over, have a look here for the part (ebay) petrol or diesel are the same. There are some pictures of the TPS - Throttle Position Sensor here.
My Name: NedL

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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD

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Thanks, I'm not sure about the ATF, my girlfriend is out in the car today but I'll check it tomorrow to see if there's enough. Not sure how to check if it's the right sort though.
Looking at that I'm thinking I might replace the TPS just to rule it out (or fix it possibly). Is it just plug and play or am I going to need to explain to the ECU what happened to its old friend and who this new TPS is?
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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NedL wrote:Thanks, I'm not sure about the ATF, my girlfriend is out in the car today but I'll check it tomorrow to see if there's enough. Not sure how to check if it's the right sort though.
Knowing the history of the car may help decide if its the right stuff, professionals will fit the correct fluid and it will be correct from the factory.

Its difficult to impossible to check the level as such. Some boxes are sealed for life and this will need a full drain down and refill with the correct amount - via the breather.

The ones that are not filled for life are a bit easier, but no way as easy as pulling a dip stick.
NedL wrote:Looking at that I'm thinking I might replace the TPS just to rule it out (or fix it possibly). Is it just plug and play or am I going to need to explain to the ECU what happened to its old friend and who this new TPS is?
No need to do any ECU programming or anything special for the TPS :D
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My Name: NedL

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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD

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Thanks. The history is pretty well unknown unfortunately. I got to see it's new trick yesterday though :( increase in revs, then a bang and goes into limp home mode. Hopefully it will have a code this time, but from what I've read it may be an electrovalve. Does anyone have any idea if the original symptom could be linked to the same issue?
My Name: tomt

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Yes I had the same problem and I am telling you now from experience not to bother asking anyone Citroen or any other ( experts ) because the truth is NO ONE KNOWS why. My Citroen did exactly the same thing and yes it is VERY annoying. I have changed to a new Citroen and am just hoping against hope that the same syptoms do not occur on this one.
My Name: NedL

Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD

Post

tomt wrote:Yes I had the same problem and I am telling you now from experience not to bother asking anyone Citroen or any other ( experts ) because the truth is NO ONE KNOWS why. My Citroen did exactly the same thing and yes it is VERY annoying. I have changed to a new Citroen and am just hoping against hope that the same syptoms do not occur on this one.
Did you try anything to fix it? If I know what hasn't worked I won't have to reinvent the wheel :)
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My Name: C3CAR

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Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
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NedL wrote: I got to see it's new trick yesterday though :( increase in revs, then a bang and goes into limp home mode.
Hi NedL, when you say 'a bang' is this a sound you can hear?

It has come up before, I will see if I can find it.
NedL wrote:Hopefully it will have a code this time,
It should have but it wont be an OBD one, it will be a Lexia one.


This is a banging auto box solution (here) (at the bottom of the topics) - yes, electrovalve, thanks to HadeZzz for confirming his is repaired.
My Name: NedL

Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD

Post

Thanks :) yeah, the bang can be heard and felt. Sounds like the electrovalve issue. I suppose I'll get that sorted, and see if it fixes up the original issue as well. It would be handy :)
My Name: NedL

Contributor
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (03)
Engine Size: 1.4
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 50000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD

Post

Update: after doing some research on here and on some peugeot forums I found some similar sounding issues. The difference was they talked about the Rev range, generally being around the 2000 mark being where the surging occurs. I tested, and it seems to be the same for me. It doesn't exactly give me an answer, but it does at least seem to give me the right question.

Now, the most common answers for others seems to be either MAF sensor, or EGR valve. My car apparently has a MAP sensor instead, but my mechanic told me it could be a similar scenario. I unplugged the MAP sensor to test if it made a difference. It didn't affect the surging, or make any huge difference. The only possible difference I could notice was possibly a little more responsiveness from the accelerator. This leads me to suspect the MAP sensor isn't really doing anything, and is probably faulty. Does anyone have any thoughts?