AL4 Transmission Issues

If you have Automatic gearbox problems or issues that would only affect an Auto, please ask here.

Please provide as much information as possible including photos you have taken and uploaded directly to the topic.
Forum rules
One question per topic about an Auto or semi-auto gearbox can be posted in this section
No engine questions
Think: Auto not changing up or down, snowflake/sport flashing, flappy paddles, actuator fault and sensodrive not changing gear.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Post

My Name: C3peo

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 25000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post

Ozvtr,
Many thanks for your time, effort and excellent train of logic,
You're correct I must stick to one train of thought and follow it through to completion and try to not think too far ahead.

So let's look at the new valves, these valves must be manufactured to very fine tolerances as the timing is critical. I didn't have S&S with the old valves but did with the new. The new valves I think are Maxgear going by the part number, but it was on a plain box not the part so could be anything in the box.
I think because I don't trust the valves I will order some new genuine BW one's and fit them before I do anything else, this will then show if the S&S warning came from the new valves of another fault which only shows up when new valves are fitted. If I can get some new seals for the back of the valve block I'll order them and fit at the same time.
If the problem still persists I'll look at changing the oil to the Mobil LT711471, even though the Mannol Universal is supposed to be Mobil LT71141 compliant I suppose there must be some sort of trade off to cover so many vehicle spec's.

Another train of thought is that suppose the valves were ok in the 1st instance and all that was wrong was the contaminated oil, then replacing with the Mannol causes the clutches to slip which would then produce additional heat and then cause the oil to start breaking down.
Either way changing the valves and the oil should sort this out.
Another thought is I haven't seen the torque converter go into lockup yet, every check I've done with Lexia report torque converter not locked or something like that, from what I've read it can lock in 2,3,or 4th gears to provide a smoother ride and cut down on heat? Would have also thought this would give a more positive reaction to acceleration but it alway seems to be in fluid or unlock mode. I'll see if I can check the actuator with Lexia.
Thanks for the link to set up the manual valve and spring, as nothing had been moved when I removed the spring I was very careful to put it back in the same place, I thing I'll mark a line this time with a fine indelible pen before I remove it which should make it easier putting it back.
So today I'll order the valves, should be here when I get back from holiday and I'll also go out and check the lockup valve for operation.
Once again many thanks for your input and time, much appreciated.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Post

C3peo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:33 pm The new valves I think are Maxgear going by the part number, but it was on a plain box not the part so could be anything in the box.
Because EVERYTHING is made in China these days I believe a lot of Chinese manufacturers of genuine parts are "back-dooring" their parts onto the market. So the "cheap Chinese knock off" is no longer a copy, it's actually the real deal (maybe minus any identifying marks). This doesn't necessarily raise the quality of knock off parts as lower the quality of "genuine parts". That's only my opinion and I have no proof.
C3peo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:33 pm I think because I don't trust the valves I will order some new genuine BW one's and fit them before I do anything else, this will then show if the S&S warning came from the new valves of another fault which only shows up when new valves are fitted. If I can get some new seals for the back of the valve block I'll order them and fit at the same time.
That's what I would do.
C3peo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:33 pm Another train of thought is that suppose the valves were ok in the 1st instance and all that was wrong was the contaminated oil, then replacing with the Mannol causes the clutches to slip which would then produce additional heat and then cause the oil to start breaking down.
There is a lot of scuttlebutt around about using the wrong fluid in the AL4. I believe that in the long run the LT71141 is the best for the gearbox but in the short term it makes no difference what ATF fluid you use.
Don't reset the oil counter completely. Guess what percentage of the total amount is new and reset the counter accordingly. If you run the gearbox and clean fresh fluid runs out, I guess you could reset it to 0 then?
C3peo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:33 pm Another thought is I haven't seen the torque converter go into lockup yet, every check I've done with Lexia report torque converter not locked or something like that, from what I've read it can lock in 2,3,or 4th gears to provide a smoother ride and cut down on heat?
You can feel the torque converter lock up just after the car shifts into second. It can feel like its shifting into another gear. Before I fixed the other gearbox this was VERY predominant. It actually felt like the car had 5 gears. After the gearbox settled down the lock up is not so noticeable but when you are looking for it you can feel it.
C3peo wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:33 pm Thanks for the link to set up the manual valve and spring, as nothing had been moved when I removed the spring I was very careful to put it back in the same place, I thing I'll mark a line this time with a fine indelible pen before I remove it which should make it easier putting it back.
You have to put the spring on after you install the valve body. The valve body can move around a bit from one installation to another as there are no locating pins just the screws. So your spring could be correctly positioned but not line up with your marks. Just make sure the selector is in park and remove the ball joint on the bowden cable from the ball on the quadrant arm on the top of the gearbox. Be sure that the manual selector shaft (in the valve body) fits into the pin under the selector quadrant . The spring detent pawl should fit snugly and positively into the quadrant detent, then the spring retaining screws are done up. The bowden cable and electrical switch can be adjusted later if needed. When I did mine the digits on the instrument cluster flashed indicating the quadrant was not set correctly in the first place. Yours may not have previously been set up correctly either!! So I wouldn't trust it.
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Post

By the way the manual valve and spring are setup in the "drive" position. This is with the selector on top of the gearbox pushed all the way forward (or counter clockwise), not in park.
The selector is rotated, without the spring, until the manual valve bottoms out in the housing. Then the spring pawl is set in the selector detent.
Quadrant.png
Quadrant.png (123.69 KiB) Viewed 285 times
Here is a link to the selector spring set up.
https://www.petrila.net/repair/2/406d9/ ... cg83k3.htm
When they talk about position 2 they are talking about the "drive" position
My Name: C3peo

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 25000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post

Ozvtr,
Many thanks again for the info, been away in Cornwall but back now and just ordered the genuine valves and 2 seals for the valve block. I'll keep you posted with the result of the new valves and seals, by the way nice link on the manual spring set up. :D
My Name: C3peo

Contributor
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:33 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2005 (05)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 25000
Trim Level: SX
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post

So a quick update, fitted new valves topped up with oil. 45 min test run, no issues and changed gear without any problems, down change was definitely more prominent could also feel the torque converter lock, so it looks like the issue was caused by the 1st new unbranded valves I purchased. Thanks to everyone for their input and special thanks to Ozvtr for the time taken in the reply posts.👍👍👍
User avatar
My Name: Ozvtr

Moderator
Posts: 957
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 am
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2003 (53)
Engine Size: 1.4 (8v)
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: Other
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD
Engine name: TU3 (75 PS)
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Post

I really don't want to be a negative Nelly but I have my fingers crossed for you.
If it's all worked out, you should notice the gearbox settle down over the next 3 tanks of fuel.
Good luck.
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post