AL4 gearbox trouble's

If you have Automatic gearbox problems or issues that would only affect an Auto, please ask here.

Please provide as much information as possible including photos you have taken and uploaded directly to the topic.
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One question per topic about an Auto or semi-auto gearbox can be posted in this section
No engine questions
Think: Auto not changing up or down, snowflake/sport flashing, flappy paddles, actuator fault and sensodrive not changing gear.
My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

Hopefully someone with knowledge might be able to help me out with a problem that my mothers 2004 C3 has developed.
Car was running really nice and then suddenly she would have to put her foot down just to get the car to creep along, If she leaves it for awhile it will go back to normal again until the engine warms up. There is no fault showing on the dash. I purchased the lexia3 equiptment and scanned for faults and it listed the following faults.

External temperature sensor incorrect value received- permanent fault- remote fault.
recycling motor open circuit- permanent fault
CAN engine torque information no signal - temp fault
Front lefthand wheel speed sensor information fault no signal - temp fault

So can someone give me some idea as to where to start to try and solve the gearbox problem, I'm no mechanic but I'll have ago at anything.
A work mate has said it could be low on transmission fluid or perhaps a gearbox temp sensor as the gearbox is fine until it gets warm, although the main dealer has said it cant be low fluid as its sealed for life and then suggested that i bring it in for them to look at and if its what he thinks it is it'll cost £450 to fix. I think he said it was an electronic valve that was most likely the cause.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
My Name: jmitchell91

Contributor
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:42 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.1
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 107325
Trim Level: Desire
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No

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I have the same problem my self with the same 2004 make would love to know how to fix it my self.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

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Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
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Post

I purchased the lexia3 equipment and scanned for faults and it listed the following faults.

External temperature sensor incorrect value received- permanent fault- remote fault.
recycling motor open circuit- permanent fault
CAN engine torque information no signal - temp fault
Front left hand wheel speed sensor information fault no signal - temp fault

So can someone give me some idea as to where to start to try and solve the gearbox problem
You missed off the Pxxxx codes and only give the descriptions. Screen capture the lexia can save time typing :)

I would fix the faults listed as these could be affecting the car. To do this, clear all the faults with lexia, some won't clear. Drive the car around and then re-read. Screen capture (alt + prtscr, paste into paint) all the latest codes to keep a copy/uploat them here. Tackle each of the remaining codes by finding and fixing the problem, how you do this depends on which codes are left.

There is no fault showing on the dash.
Anything showing on the gearbox?

although the main dealer has said it cant be low fluid as its sealed for life
Well, if it leaks out due to a faulty seal, then it could be low on oil! is there an oily patch on the driveway?

I think he said it was an electronic valve that was most likely the cause.
I would like to think that would show up on lexia. But there was a recall or something similar for a faulty valve in the gearbox.

One of these things: AL4 electrovalve solenoids (available here), but the upgraded one needs a software update in the gearbox to work correctly. Lexia (click here) would be the only tool to do this.

There are some more pictures of the electrovalve from a AL4 and lots of information on how to fix the electrovalve solenoid fault for an AL4 gearbox (fitted to the C3) in this topic - Replacement of electrovalves AL4 transmission fault code 6.
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My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately I erased the faults before checking for the codes. All faults have gone except for the external temp sensor which the car never had in the first place. I've tried to disable it in the BSI but it requires some sort of key code which I don't have. The next thing is for the car to be taken for a drive to see if the faults return.
My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

I've been into the citroen garage today to try and get the BSI pin code, but as expected no luck. They won't give it me and keep insisting that I bring the car into them to look at.
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My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 259 times
Been thanked: 112 times

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swampies wrote:I've been into the citroen garage today to try and get the BSI pin code, but as expected no luck. They won't give it me and keep insisting that I bring the car into them to look at.
It may just be easier to add the outside air temperature sensor. Its in the drivers mirror housing.
Citroen C3 OS wing mirror has temperature sensor fitted
Citroen C3 OS wing mirror has temperature sensor fitted
https://citroenc3owners.com/citroen-c3-q ... 3-t81.html


It will be interesting to hear if the fault is still present and the current codes stored.

Have you had a look for the pin code in the owners handbook pack, you may find the scratch off panel on a credit sized plastic card.
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My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately we don't have the handbook for the car.
I still require the pin code as I want to have a go at programing a new fob to the car, and I'm not willing to pay nearly £100 to have it done. Plus I'd like to have a play with lexia and see what can be done. It seems nothing can be changed in the BSI without the pin code. I've phoned citroen and suppling the pin code is a service that can only be done by a dealer and costs £25 so I don't see why the local dealer won't other than trying to make more money.
My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

Update...
It turns out that the gearbox does not have the drain/level checking nut that I was expecting. So I bit the bullet and poured in a half litre of fluid anyway.
She was taken for a drive today about 20 miles or so and only a slight improvent was noticed, once she is warm and you come to a stop you then have to put your foot down just to get her to move and then suddenly she will take off as if it was a manual and the clutch has been released. if that makes any sense.

There are no warnings either on the dash or the sport and snow flashing.
When the weather is a bit nicer I will have to jack the car up and have a better look under the gearbox as its a little difficult to slide my 15 stones under the car when she is parked on the road.
It'll also give me a good chance to see where the engine oil is leaking from as she has a bad leak somewhere. The last time i checked her it took 2 litres just to get the oil to show on the dipstick.

I have run lexia and checked all the electric valves/ actuators and no problems were found.
Not sure whether to risk it and chuck another half litre in or not.

I have to admit I dislike the car but my mother likes it even if she does'nt trust it anymore.

Thanks
User avatar
My Name: Arfur Dent

Guru
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2002 (52)
Engine Size: 1.4 (16v)
Fuel Type: Diesel
Mileage: 100000
Trim Level: Exclusive
Gearbox: Manual 5 speed
DPF: No
LHD or RHD: RHD (UK)
Engine name: DV4 16-valve diesel (90 PS)
Has thanked: 259 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Post

swampies wrote:Update...
It turns out that the gearbox does not have the drain/level checking nut that I was expecting. So I bit the bullet and poured in a half litre of fluid anyway.
Some of the early AL4 had the level checking and the later ones did away with it and became 'sealed for life'.
Citroen C3 oil level check automatic AL4 gearbox
Citroen C3 oil level check automatic AL4 gearbox
You can't really check the level, but you keep topping up until it pours out of the 'overflow' (number 3) which has already been removed. If you remove number 4 by mistake, all the oil drains out :cry:


The correct oil for the AL4 is this Mobil ATF LT 71141 (available here).

Citroen C3 ATF fluid
Citroen C3 ATF fluid
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The correct oil for the AL4 in a Citroen C3 :)

AL4 Citroen C3 automatic gearbox oil fill and drain point
AL4 Citroen C3 automatic gearbox oil fill and drain point
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My Name: swampies

Contributor
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:53 pm
Model: C3 2002-2005, Original shape model
Year: 2004 (04)
Engine Size: 1.4 i
Fuel Type: Petrol
Mileage: 80000
Trim Level: VTR+
Gearbox: Automatic PRND
DPF: No

Post

I managed to find the time to get the car on the ramps to have a good look under the gearbox.
There does seem to be a drain plug in the bottom but it's different to the one in the diagram.
Citroen C3 gearbox drain point
Citroen C3 gearbox drain point
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